From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 2:24 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #377; Jan. 17, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #377; Jan. 17, 2000 1. Very sick Fuzzy, Urgent 2. Lucky Charm update 3. Re: FAIML #376; Jan. 16, 2000 4. loosing wheeler and insulinoma without signs 5. Appreciation @->->- 6. Essiac 7. Essiac 8. FAIML #376; Jan. 16, 2000 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Very sick Fuzzy, Urgent From: Julie Fossa Date sent: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:14:12 -0800 (PST) I'm posting this to both the FML and FAIML, so I apologize for the repetition. I'm looking for any and all help anyone can offer. I've got a sick shelter fur child, and looking for guidance. Solo came into the shelter in September. We were at overflow status, so he was immediately moved to another family that helps me out, where he received his CDV vaccination, and excellent care. He had been there ever since, until about 10 days ago. Anthony called, and let us know Solo was sick; I brought him home (along with the 3 others). Solo: very healthy, active sable male, about 18 months old. Diet: Totally Ferret / Iams Kitten, Chicken and Rice. Vaccinated. Negative CEP test for ADV November 4, 1999. Tuesday, January 4, Solo became lethargic and stopped eating. Left eye was watery. Began feeding Gerber Chicken baby food. Thursday, I brought him back to the shelter. Stool; normal. No tooth grinding, or 'smacking'. Friday, Jan. 7, he went to the vet. Blood work, for those able to interpret : ALKP = 11 U/L ALT = -- U/L BUN = 17.5 mg/dl CREA = 0.52 mg/dl GLU = 117.7 mg/dl TP = 5.11 g/dl The vet noticed a tenderness in the 'stomach area', and took a pretty much full body x-ray. Suspected a possible foreign body in the stomach. Temperature 103. Started on Amoxi-Dorps. Fluids given. Decided to give him the weekend on fluids and soft food feedings to get a little stronger before surgery. Input and output pretty good all weekend. Still very weak. Monday I was down with a stomach virus, and did not take him in until Tuesday. He has received 1000 ml of Ringers by this time. Weight holding steady. Temperature 105. Exploratory showed all organs looked good. No foreign body in stomach or intestines. Biopsy of stomach and spleen taken. The lymph node near the stomach was enlarged. Anitbiotics changed to Baytril. Tuesday's dose injected, the balance of the week's was oral. Still eating duck soup / Gerber Chicken well. Still getting Ringers. Seldom opens eyes, still watering a bit. Nose slightly runny. Pulls himself off of blankets onto paper towels to do his business but too weak to make it back to blankets. No longer can lift his body up to get himself out of 'it'. Stool returned pretty much to a normal color/consistency within 36 hours of surgery. I'm cleaning him after each elimination, now. Saturday, the lab reports come back, and the Spleen is pretty much normal, and the stomach is too. I don't have a copy of the lab report (I forgot to ask for it) and Vet decided to go ahead and treat for Helicobacter, just 'in case'. I took him in; his temp is 104. Breathing is somewhat congested and has a 'rattle' if he has been laying down for a while (I hold him quite a bit, and it goes away.). Breathing remains what I would consider rapid and shallow. Put on Biaxin/ Amoxi-drops. Second bag of Ringers used, and new bag brought home. Sunday, his appetite is dropping off, and he no longer willingly eats if you just put the food under his mouth. He will accept it, and eat more, if I syringe feed. He is 'chewing' without food, now, and so I've started him on Pepcid AC. If Anyone has any idea what might be going on here, please help. I suspected Canine distemper, at first, then possibly lymphoma? Could this just be an influenza? His former cagemates are all healthy. We just cannot seem to pull this little boy out of this. -Tuesday it will be two weeks. Julie and Solo ==== Julie Fossa West Central Ohio Ferret Shelter 419/ 225-8383 "Just A Place To Hang Your Hammock While You're Looking for A Home!" 2. Lucky Charm update From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:06:38 +0000 Thanks to everyone here for your help so far. I believe I've thanked everyone individually by e-mail. After talking to Dr. Weiss (suggested by one of the people on this list who responded to my request for help), my vet decided that Lucky Charm's kidney parameters were probably OK. This was corroborated by a second-opinion blood test I had done by a different vet using a different lab -- the reason I requested a second test was that a similar discrepancy had shown up last August at Colorado State University right before Lucky Charm underwent a right adrenalectomy. However, because Lucky Charm's calcium counts are high, Dr. Weiss and my vet are concerned that she may have an as-yet undiagnosed cancer such as lymphoma. I've already lost three ferrets to lymphoma/lymphosarcoma and I am concerned about the hypothesis that this disease may have a viral origin. I asked about her lymphocyte counts and my vet said they were normal. My vet now wants to do an ultrasound to look for tumors. I doubt they would be able to find anything as small as multicentric lymphoma tumors using ultrasound (plus it's expensive at $175). I am also worried that if they shave her belly, her fur may not grow back again. This is because her fur is beginning to get rougher and she is returning ever so slowly to her earlier licking and grooming behavior toward the other ferrets, a behavior that ceased following her right adrenalectomy. I do not know if she would be a candidate for Lupron while she is on Florinef. Do others here have experience with using these two medications? Or is there another way to identify lymphoma? We started giving sub-Q fluids to Lucky Charm two days ago. For now, I'm giving her sub-Q lactated ringers every couple of days. My vet does not want to give her Tumil-K because her electrolyte counts are normal (at least for the time being) and she's concerned that increasing her potassium levels would kill her. Meanwhile, my vet and another vet at CSU are strongly advising against giving her any vaccines, both of which are due this month. They're afraid her immune system isn't strong enough. I have since found an Internet reference stating that Florinef increases the likelihood of having a reaction to a vaccine. Still, I am a little concerned about not giving Lucky Charm a distemper vaccine. She likes to go on short hikes and it seems cruel to make her stay indoors. Plus I worry about potential exposure to distemper on any random surface at the veterinary clinic. Lucky Charm is about 5 years old and has never had a reaction to her vaccines before (Fervac-D and Imrab). If anyone here has more information about these conditions, would you please let me know? Thanks. Linda, Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, & Zipper 3. Re: FAIML #376; Jan. 16, 2000 From: Sunshine Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 15:05:48 -0800 Never heard of black and blue marks on a penis. Is the ferret overweight? Our hob was given advantage for fleas and he rubbed his fur in the blue carpet and had a blue neck. Was worried at first, but then realized he was just rubbing himself into the carpet. 4. loosing wheeler and insulinoma without signs From: PoddoFeret@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:35:51 EST >Can they have insulinoma and not show any signs? Wheeler crossed the bridge >Saturday night laying on my chest. First I want to tell you I am truly sorry to hear about wheeler. I know how you feel. I have been reading alot on this board, but this is the first time I have written, and this one just might be long so please bear with me. Yes ferrets can have insulinoma without signs. When one of my first fuzzies, Koddo (she and her identical twin, yes Poddo, were my first two ferrets) got sick she was lethargic, not eating, and dehydrated. When I took her to the vet her BG was around 60, and the vet told me 80 was normal. For anyone who doesn't know yet 80 isn't normal I belive normal BG is around 110, if I'm wrong I appreciate a correction. The vet gave me an antibiotic for the parasite she did have then told me to put her on 50/50 sugar and water solution from Thursday when I brought her in until Monday morning. On Saturday I gave her to my mom to watch her over night, mom works at nights unlike me and hubby and so she was able to stay up all night and watch her for me, and at 10:30 at night she called me to tell me Koddo locked her jaw shut, and that was the night that she was either going to make it through till morning or not. While over at her house with Koddo she hopped online and talked to a few ferret breeders she knew who told her immidiately she had insulinoma, and the sugar/water was going to kill her. They sent us to wal-mart to get chicken baby food and spring water. When we returned to feed her something a bit more stable than sugar we discovered she had crossed over the bridge. Proior to her being sick she had no signs of insulinoma at all. Again I am truly sorry about the loss of your ferret. They all do make a forever lasting footprint on our hearts. PoddoFeret (mommy) Poddo, Minga, Nibbles, Skittles, and Max (my 5 fuzzies) Cody, and Bear (my mom's fuzzies) and Koddo and Taz over the rainbow bridge 5. Appreciation @->->- "Jadesun" Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:20:56 -0400 I want to thank you all for your kind words and condolences when Jade Elaine left me to move on to the Rainbow Bridge :o) Still, I think of him often, moreso thru smiles now instead of tears. I have made up a disk with all the well wishes, cards and condolences. Please let me not forget one single name :o) Aileen, Alissa Stolghren, Barbara Ludt, Dayna Frazier, Debbie, Donald Dittamn, Ferret Lover, Francine Prager, Georgette Peters, Glenn Johnson, Janet Debra, Jason Poole and his Fab 4, JLO, Joe, Judy, Kat Parsons, Kevin B & his Kewl Kritter Krew, Kristen, Lisette, Lynn McIntosh, Lynn Siegel, Marc Wilson and the New Tres Amigos, Margie, Mary Rogers and the 15 Munchkins, Mike Janke, Millie & her Noble Cleaning Crew, Pat Derose & Sparky, Paula, Phyllis & Sammi, Plashette & the 7 Dwarfs, Rebecca & the Crew of Merry Mayhem, Rose de Trafford, Sandy Browning, Sandi Repper, Sandy & Fuzzies, Shari Bradstream, Sherry Cox, Sally St. Germaine & her 12 Little Saints, Stephanie & her band of Closet Thieves, Thone, Tina & Mocha & Kodi, Troy Lynn Eckart, Vicki Hendersen, Wendy & her Buddy & Buster. And the cards they were beautiful, thank you ever so much: Jason Poole :o) Sandi Browning, Barb Wiborg, Millie & her Noble Cleaning Crew, Sandy & Fuzzies, Georgette Peters, Pat Derose, Plashette, Rose de Trafford. I want to say a very special Thank You to my Vet, Debbie who is a wonderful person and gave "her all" to Jade Elaine in the 6.5 wonderful years that I've had the honor to spend with him. My new baby Amber-Lynn is a wonderful little girl, I love her to pieces now, I'm hers :o) I have just finished her web page today, (not a lot to it yet), I will replace pics with better ones. If you are interested in seeing her, you can visit her at: http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/jadesun/amber.htm OR http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/jadesun/amber.htm I don't know, but for some silly reason one addy will work person and not another, silly NBNET :o) To all of you again, your kindness will never be forgotten :o) Jadesun, Dai Mai n' Amber-Lynn terribly missing Jade Elaine :o( http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/jadesun @->->- 6. Essiac From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:41:04 +0000 I have given Essiac to Angel, one of my ferrets who had lymphoma and was on Prednisone for a couple of years or more before she died last October. A holistic vet recommended that I first warm up a very small amount of water in a microwave (making sure it wasn't too hot) and then mixing in a couple drops of the Essiac. He thought that heating the Essiac in the water would break it down. I would then put the solution in a dropper and give it to Angel by squeezing it into the pouch of one of her cheeks. It wasn't her favorite treat -- she liked the Prednisone much better -- but she didn't seem to mind it too much. Linda, Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, & Zipper 7. Essiac From: Ferret Wise Shelter Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:51:23 -0500 RE: Essiac dosing Hi Sandy- In the past we have used the Essiac tea here at Ferret Wise-- the one caution I will share is IF the ferret has low blood sugar-- or tendency for it the Essiac does seem to bring the insulinoma condition out. Make sure you do not have an underlying insulinoma condition and monitor closely when administering the Essiac I would reccommend the tea in conjunction with the pred. dosage Alicia for the many faces at Ferret Wise 8. FAIML #376; Jan. 16, 2000 From: Melissa Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 09:33:56 -0500 >4. Scooter My Little Dude-r >From: "Mary Rogers" >Date sent: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:44:40 -0600 >.....How >often do you give them the hair ball remedy? I give it a couple of times a week. They think it's a treat. I give more during shedding season. -Melissa http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets ----------------------- End of FAIML #377 -------------------------