From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 2:09 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #396; March 6, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #396; March 6, 2000 1. Missy update 2. Re: FAIML #395; Feb. 26, 2000 3. Insulinoma 4. diuretics 5. Condolences The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Missy update From: "Christine Bertch" Date sent: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 17:01:15 -0800 I can't believe how many quick, thoughtful responses I received regarding my post about Missy. I want to thank you all for your concern and suggestions, it is so good to know that there's so much help out there. But there was nothing I could do--I force fed her, tried to keep her hydrated, increased her pred dosage immediately, gave her Nutri-Cal and Karo syrup, and tried to get Proglycem but no one could get it for me on a Sunday. Nothing would get her out of it and she continued to get worse. I couldn't stand to watch her suffer any longer--she wouldn't (couldn't) even move. I felt so helpless. Two days ago she appeared to be fine--she was still eating, drinking, running around and her dosage of pred seem to really help her energy level and appetite. My vet, who helped me through all of this, met me at his office last night to help Missy over the bridge. I still can't believe she's gone. Missy came to me two and a half years ago, desperately needing adrenal surgery and freed from a life in a backyard cage. She was so depressed she barely made it through that surgery, but she was a fighter. Though she wasn't ever a cuddle ferret, she was never ever mean to anyone. She was always a shining example of someone who had been through so much, but never took it out on the world. She leaves behind a friend, Benji, for whom I first subscribed to this list for more information about insulinoma. I worry that he will be lonley, but I'm going to make sure he gets plenty of love, especially now. At least I can take the advice I have received about Missy and remember it in case Benji's insulinoma becomes difficult as well. I don't know what more to say right now, I just miss her so much and I know so many of you know how I feel. Christine Benji and my angel *Missy* 2. Re: FAIML #395; Feb. 26, 2000 From: "Melissa" Date sent: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:06:06 -0500 >1. URGENT POST: insulinoma problem >From: "Christine Bertch" >Date sent: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 21:35:48 -0800 > >I hope someone can help us soon. Missy, my ferret with insulinoma (and >formerly adrenal tumors) has very recently become very hypoglycemic. She >was on .2 cc twice daily, then I increased it to .25 almost two weeks >ago.....what are >some of your opinions on how high her pred dose can go.......is there anything >I should watch out for obviously besides seizuring? I have a couple of questions for you. :) 1) Are you sure it's hypoglycemia and not diabetes (rare, but possilbe) Has she had any tests to confirm this? 2) Are you sure the cause of the hypoglycemia is from insulinomas? If she has a partial blockage or if there's some other reason that she's not eating, she could have low blood sugar simply from not eating enough. Upping her pred won't help if this is the case. Figuring out why she's not eating and curing that could be the answer. As for your other questions. Whitney is on 1cc of pediapred twice a day and I believe we'll ultimately go up to 1.5 twice a day before we start proglycem. Whitney is on the small-ish side as well. If you haven't already checked out Bob Church's Chicken Gravy, you might want to take a look at it and start feeding that. I've had to use a modified version of it for Whitney because of her digestive problems (Helicobacter, IBD, Kidney, Liver... don't ask!) If it doesn't agree with your ferret, try it without some ingredients and see if it makes a difference. In Whitney's case, she needed no fat in the mixture at all and none of the ground up bones or kibble. Just chicken and the rest of the "goop". I wouldn't suggest this particular variation for all ferrets! My point is just that if your ferrets has trouble with the mixture, keep working with it. You might find it very helpful. -Melissa >3. Question >From: Lccmtaylor@aol.com >Date sent: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 07:29:45 EST > >My almost three year old (rescued so I'm not exact on the age) male sable >ferret, Butch, had surgery for removal of the adrenals last Wednesday. Both >adrenal glands were removed and he responded well to surgery, eating and >playing (gently) by Saturday. This past Wednesday morning, we woke up to him >screaming at 6:30am, I pulled him from his cage and tried to help him, but he >was apparently suffering a seizure of some type and died within a few agonizing >minutes. ...... If I had Karo syrup on hand next to his cage, do you know if >there was a possibility of my saving him by rubbing it on his gums...... I'm >looking for answers not to continue to beat myself up for the untimely death of >this sweet, gentle, funny member of my family, I'm so sorry to read about your ferret (as well as the other person who posted earlier). Yes, Karo syrup *might* have brought him out of his seizure if it was from low blood sugar. However, there are a few things to consider. -The seizure may not have been from insulinoma. A necropsy (autopsy) would give you more information. -If your ferret had a substantial blood sugar problem, your vet *probably* would have noticed tumors on the pancreas when he did the adrenal surgery. -The Karo Syrup could hadve worked, but also could have spiked and dropped his sugar again and you'd still have to get him to a vet asap. So yes, it might have made a difference, but it don't think it's so clear cut that it *definitely* would have made a difference. I don't know of many ferrets with low blood sugar that have one big seizure with no previous symptoms and die, though it's possible. It's also possible that it wasn't just a freak blood sugar attack. Things might have been a little more complicated than that. Even so, I'm sorry it happened. -Melissa >4. Please subscribe me; Chuckie question >From: "Cheryl Steenburn" >Date sent: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 01:15:26 -0800 > About how long does it take for the full coat to >come in. Also, how long to grow fur on the tail? Thanks! Hi Cheryl. Welcome! Hair re-growth varies. Some ferrets don't grow fur back for months or until their next shedding season. Some never grow hair back at all. Some start growing it back immediately. Glad yours is on the mend. By the way, your website link didn't work for me w/ Netscape. Worked ok with IE. It might be because you need a closing tag. -Not sure. Nice site. I love some of your pictures. -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 3. Re: FAIML #395; Feb. 26, 2000 From: "Cynthia Fontneau" Date sent: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 22:45:29 -0500 about the insulinoma , i have had 2 ferrets on pediapred and proglycem for almost a year, one ferret had no appetite while on the pred. i had to wean him off slowly and give him proglycem 2 times a day instead, also i had to keep the dose low. sometimes you can over medicate them without realizing it. as soon as he was off the pred his eating was normal and he gained weight. while i was weaning him , he would only eat from a finger or by drop. good luck. 4. diuretics From: "Susan S Saliga" Date sent: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:54:34 -0600 Hi, I was just wondering if anyone has tried using a diuretic for bloating? My 6 year old Mia Ferret who is now in the later stages of adrenal cancer and insulinoma (she's had her surgeries and is now in medicine management for her symptoms - Pred, Proglycem) started looking very bloated in her belly. She was having difficulty walking and did not seem interested in coming out to have her usual prowl around the house. My vet prescribed a diuretic for her and I can't believe how much better she is doing. I also never knew that a ferret had such a large bladder! For the first two days her urine output was very large...she now looks like she went down a "couple of jean sizes". She is drinking additional water with mixed with Kaolyte, AD, and chicken baby food to prevent electrolyte loss. She is walking (and running a little) much better now that her back end isn't loaded down and now wants to come out for a walk about twice a day. Has anyone else had any experience with diuretics that they can share? Thanks, Susan Saliga 5. Condolences From: "lynne wooldridge" Date sent: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:55:22 -0600 Dear Amy and Cay, I was so sorry to hear of your loss. And, I could plainly hear that question, "What if. . . . Did I do enough or the right thing?" It is so difficult to know what to do when our little fur friends get these complicated illnesses and conditions. We do as much as we can and try to be prepared I keep Karo by my Dustie's cage, but it might NOT be enough to bring him out of a seizure such as the one that you describe, Cay. When we chose to surgery, we try to find the most experienced ferret vet and hope for the best, providing good after surgery care. Amy, with your little angel, that condition sounds as if it was so advanced that even surgery could not remedy it. One thing that I have started doing with Dustie is to have an ultrasound done twice a year or whenever I suspect or the vet suspects that something is wrong. This has been very helpful in knowing what is going on with him and helpful to my vet when she went in to take out an adrenal and his spleen. As you say, it may look ok or like one thing from the outside, but the inside story may be quite different. Recently, Dustie had an ultrasound because my vet found a mass and it seemed to be tender. An ultrasound was done that day and it turned out to be a fat pad and nothing more. This is much easier on a ferret than an exploratory. I don't know if you have access to this type of procedure. I live in a capitol city that has plenty of resources, so I am lucky. If you do have these resources, it may help in the future. An ultrasound here is about $80 or so. I don't even think that an ultrasound can tell the whole story of what is going on inside but it helps. Amy and Cay, it sounds to me that you both gave your little fur angels the happiest lives that you could provide. I hope that is a comfort to you now. Lynne in Austin, Texas ----------------------- End of FAIML #396 -------------------------