From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:28 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #400; March 16, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #400; March 16, 2000 1. Update on Bandit 2. Adrenal Disease the Progression 3. Spring Hair Regrowth 4. Introduction to group 5. Replies: FAIML #399; March 15, 2000 6. partial pancreas removals 7. Nutrical in Chicken Gravy 8. NY Vet 9. NY Vet: St. Mark's Vet 10. NY VET 11. NY Vet: AMC vets The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Update on Bandit From: Cjbandit@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:47:16 EST Hi Lynn and all, I just wanted to give u an update on Bandit's health. First off I just wanted to extend the biggest thanx to everyone who posted messages of vets in the NY/CT area. Also for the unlimited amount of knowlegeable experience that was shared with me regarding Bandit's condition (Adrenal Disease and complications urinating due to enlarged prostate). I went to AMC (Animal Medical Center) this morning with Bandit and met with Dr. Hess. Her suggestion to me was to leave him in the hopital for a couple of days in case a blockage occured and to run more blood work (CBC) again last done in Dec. 98 and a SMA (Don't know what that is just saw it on my bill). She is also going to d an ultrasound see whats going on and then give him a shot of Lupron. I thought surgery would be the way to go based on all the research I've done and based on everyones experience who's had a ferret with Adrenal Disease. She seems reluctant and says she would rather opt for the more conservative treatment. I don't know I'm some what skeptical I just believe surgery is inevitable anyway. Lupron I've heard mixed things about it and what if its malignant then what??? You really don't have anyway of knowing unless they biopsy the adrenal glands. What do you think??? It's already costing $800 dollars without the surgery. If this is the best way to go fine money is irrelevant but if I'm just prolonging the inevitable whats the purpose. I thought Lupron was just use if a ferret was a high risk for surgery. Does anybody have any thoughts on this??? I'll keep you posted I'm suppose to speak with her this afternoon. Thanx so much, Christina 2. Adrenal Disease the Progression From: "Barry Olanoff" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:06:20 -0500 My ferret girl FUMAR was at her Vets in December 1999 for her checkup. The vet saw that the above the hind legs the hair was very thin. He stated that this could be from Adrenal Problems and he explained the disease. He then came back and told me that he could diagnose that condition with a new urine test. FUMAR stayed overnight and was hydrated with IV fluid until he got urine. About 3 days later he said the test indicated adrenal disease. The options given to me were surgery and possibly drug therapy. As I am retired and on a fixed income I was not able to spend the money for an ultrasound and surgery. He stated that drug therapy was available and was also expensive.Neither was guaranteed to cure this disease and the drugs could be toxic. FUMAR has been on Totally Ferret Food and Ferret Bites for goodies. She loves them. I saw at the pet store Ferritone and I started to give her that every day. She has more fur and seems to be ok. The vet did not explain to me the timeframe or progression either. I also am not sure the Urine test was right as I have been told by others the only way to diagnose Adrenal Disease is by Ultrasound, blood test or her vulva (which is fine). If anyone could help me with these problems I would appreciate an email to : barryo1225@aol.com Thanks, Barry 3. Spring Hair Regrowth From: "Sandra Barcelona" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:42:47 -0600 (CST) I posted a while back regarding Luella, my seven year old ferret who was just starting to lose her hair a few months ago. She had no other symptoms but hair loss which has progressed so she's now pretty bald. I was struggling between surgery vs. Lupron. The Lupron was going to be logistically very difficult for us since the vet is not near us, and I am short on time. Since I am an anesthesiologist, I am accustomed to the idea of surgical therapy, so I wanted to be sure I was not being too aggressive with my otherwise healthy but older ferret by scheduling surgery for her. My vet, who elects to treat with Lupron only when there are true contraindications to surgery, advised to wait until the April or May to schedule her for surgery because she's sees a fair percentage of ferrets who have adrenal hyperplasia that resolves with the seasons. Luella was getting quite itchy by this point so for symptomatic relief, she has been trying low dose spironolactone (actually a diuretic in higher doses, but has anti-androgen side effects). So I've been impatiently waiting for the Spring, and all of a sudden, she is growing back a small, but very thick patch of fur over her right flank near her tail, which was the very first place she lost hair from! The rest of her coat is still pretty sparse though. I was wondering if anyone has seen this return of hair and what I should make of it....side effect of spironolactone, reversible adrenal hyperplasia instead of adenoma or carcinoma, or just a normal progression of hair loss with occasional patches of regrowth seen with adrenal tumors... Any thoughts? Thanks, Sandy and Luella 4. Introduction to group From: JHerge9760@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 14:49:06 EST Hello. My name is Stephanie and I am owned by 4 fuzzies with one watching over me above. My dearest ferret Keegan has been diagnosed with Insulinoma. She underwent the surgery to remove the infected half of her pancreas. She is doing well for now. But I was told she would probably only live another year at the most. Is this correct? Keegan was diagnosed last year with adrenal disease and had the right adrenal gland removed. She is only 4. I also lost a ferret last year to Auto Immune Shut Down Syndrome. Other than this I have been pretty lucky for owning five ferrets. My only male - Max is about 5 y/o and so far no bad luck. The other 2 Kayla nd Maya are only 2. I have heard that early spaying can cause the adrenal disease. Is this true? I rescued all my babies so I don't really know where they came from aor their actual ages. They all have the tattoo in their ear which I have heard is the brand for Marshall Farms Ferrets. I am curious as to what I should be expecting for Keegan? Will she be healthhy up until the almost end? Is there anything I can do to prolong it besides the Devils Club Supreme which I am looking into. Any info will be greatly appreciated. 5. Replies: FAIML #399; March 15, 2000 From: ANITABEERS@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:04:10 EST Hi Everyone, Well, I haven't posted in forever. I unfortunately was gone for several weeks recently due to my father becoming ill and then passing away. Things are slowly getting back to normal for me though, and the fuzzies are always good for cheering me up. :-) We also had a great visit with Bob Church 2 nights ago here in Albuquerque, NM. What a blast that guy is! We went to dinner, then everyone came to my house and loved up the fluffs. He might stop back thru, and the NM fert people would really love that! On to other stuff though - for Scooter and Sue: Try to get your vet to prescribe "Pediapred" for you since most ferts prefer the taste. Pred also has a nasty reputation for causing ulcers if not given with plenty of food, so that may be why your vet also prescribed the carafate. Try given Scooter the pred mixed in some Feline Hills AD which is soft canned food for ill animals that you can usually buy from your vet. Keep him on his kibble too though, so he has some roughage. Nothing like a straining fert to keep you up at night! :-) Regarding the possible lympho, I would wait for a confirmed diagnoses and put off any surgery until then if possible. It may turn out that you'd be better off treating the lympho and not stressing Scooter out with the surgery. I've been thru lympho, and our fert lived another 8 months, despite having the fast acting type of lympho. I've heard of others living for several years after diagnoses, so just try to hang in there. We all know how stressed you feel, and we'll help you thru it. So I would suggest for your next step, to talk to your vet and see if he thinks you should wait for the lympho test before surgery, then get the test and try not to worry about it until then since it may not even be lympho. Good luck, and you and Scooter are in my thoughts! Anita 6. partial pancreas removals From: "Moxie" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:36:56 -0500 Hi all, I interviewed my vet today for a web page I'm making him and asked about his experience performing surgery on insulinoma ferrets. He says he has done some of those, but sometimes there is a problem with leakage when he removes some of the nodules. He also said he prefers to treat with the more expensive drug that is called for after pred. is no longer effective, the one that also starts with P. He would use that drug alone instead of pred. if the client can afford it. He has also used Azium. He averages two ferret surgeries a week, the majority adrenals and the occasional spleen removal. Does anyone know what he was referring to when he talked about leakage from the pancreas when you remove part of it? He was pressed for time, so I didn't ask more questions. He did get me the Heartguard for Cats heartworm preventative that I asked him to order, as I'm putting Chance on that this season. I decided this after reading Dr. Kemmerer's article in the Jan./Feb. issue of Ferrets magazine. Even if your ferrets don't go outside, they are still at risk. You know how a mosquito can make its way into the house. I left the article with him and he is going to contact Dr. Kemmerer to discuss the diagnostic test for heartworm disease in ferrets. One great thing about my vet, he is always open to information I bring him and is always seeking more knowledge. He has also started dispensing Lupron and I'm going to follow up on his results. This was after I brought to his attention the protocol of Dr. Weiss. I printed out all the information I gathered off the internet and he was very eager to try it. I asked him about cryosurgery and he says he may eventually get into it. He said he has been very successful in not having major bleeding when removing adrenal tumors. I hope the person in New York located a ferret specialist, as a blockage is a very serious life-threatening problem. My late Slinky blocked and was in tremendous pain as I rushed him to the vet. He was successfully catherized and a lot of mucous was removed. For the remainder of his life, I added a bit of cranberry juice to his duck soup, and I believe that helped. He was a post-op adrenal ferret with lots of problems. If the Lupron had been readily available then, I think Slinky would have been a good candidate. We hope all the sick fuzzies improve and our condolences to those who have lost precious buddies. And thanks to innovative vets like Dr. Weiss and Dr. Kemmerer and others willing to learn. Moxie and Chance 7. Nutrical in Chicken Gravy From: "Ann Barzda" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:34:52 -0600 Hi! Just thought I would put my two cents in.... The amount of Nutrical and honey in a batch of chicken gravy contains so little sugar per serving it is unlikely to trigger a problem. In fact, it is important to keep those ingredients in, because the chicken gravy is not just a duck soup, but has been nutritionally balanced to simulate actual prey animals that would be eaten by weasels (or a ferret). The nutrical and honey represent the foods that might be left in the stomach and intestines of a mouse or bird. It is the nutritional balance of the gravy that makes it such a great food for ferrets, not just an occasional treat. I feed it every day and my ferrets love it, and have gotten very healthy, active and are keeping their weight up very well. What you can cut back on, if your ferrets are gluttons and have "gravy gut", is the amount of additional fat. It probably wouldn't hurt to cut back a little on the nutrical and honey depending on the size of your chicken, but when someone asked Bob this very question on the FML, he answered that it was important to keep those nutrients in and that he thought it unlikely it would cause a problem. Hope this helps. Ann Barzda Hillcrest Ferrets ferrets@hillcrestferrets.com 8. NY Vet From: Rikkie2000@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:19:04 EST In a message dated 3/15/00 10:52:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << 1. URGENT- vet referral needed in New York >> I know that time is of the essence here, but did want to refer Cornell College which is in upstate NY. This is a veterinary (teaching) hospital. I have taken my ferret there in the past for adrenal diagnosis. Good luck 9. NY Vet: St. Mark's Vet From: "Leslie Kauffman" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:01:24 -0500 Lynn, I go to St. Mark's Vet...It's on East 9th Street between 1st and 2nd aves (closer to 1st) Their phine # is (212) 477-2688. They've always been really good with my two. Very ferret knowlegable...Might be a bit pricey, though. Good luck! Leslie, Bean and Daggett 10. NY Vet From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:26:48 EST Christina, There are two vets names that you are pretty close to. The first one is Dr. Quesenberry at the Animal Medical Center - I have never been there, but was told it was excellant. the second one is the one I go to - It is in South Wilton Ct. They are EXCELLANT there. I use Dr, Sitinas, however I know he is away now. I believe Dr. Faighy (spelling?) may be the only one working this week as to Dr. Sitinas and his wife Dr.Robertson are both away - but Dr. Faighy is very nice and very knowledgable - she has returned my phone calls many times to help relax my worries that somethign else is going wrong. Dr. Sitinas has saved my connor's life - he has an inoperable right adrenal tumor and it has been almost 7 months since his last shot of lupron and he is doing SUPER. They really are very good there - give them a call. 203-762-2002. South Wilton is not far from you - I am 35 minutes from yonkers and it only take me about an hour with no traffic to get to south wilton so you are probably max about 30 minutes from them. Good luck, Amy, Winnie, Chloe and Connor 11. NY Vet: AMC vets From: "Gail Sherman Reilly" Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:33:36 -0500 Ferret StationeryAny of the exotics vets at the AMC are great, but I have a personal preference for Dr. Morrisey. Dr. Quesenberry is awesome, but she's extremely hard to get an appointment with because she does a lot of work with parrots and such. The thing about the AMC is, you get a whole department. When my little Spot was in in January with inexplicable kidney failure, whenever I called to check up on her, it didn't matter who I talked to, because they all knew exactly what was going on, and how she was doing. Gail ************************************************************ I'm against testing on animals. They get all confused and get all the answers wrong. ************************************************************ mailto:gailreilly@usa.net ICQ # 10324485 web page http://www.frontiernet.net/~ncc2893 ----------------------- End of FAIML #400 -------------------------