From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 2:50 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #433; June 8, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #433; June 8, 2000 1. Subject: Help soon with attacking dogs! 2. Adrenal Disease: Bandit 3. Surgery: Now or Later? 4. Lupron after surgery 5. Sharing Memories 6. Replies: FAIML #432; June 6, 2000 7. Replies: FAIML #432; June 6, 2000 8. idea for two post surgery 9. response to urgent post 6-7-00 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Help soon with attacking dogs! Date sent: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:06:41 EDT From: JHerge9760@aol.com Hello. I have a dilema that I need major help with. My long time boyfriend and I decided to move in together. This is a great thing except for one problem - his dogs. They try to attack the ferrets every time they are around each other. The dogs will try and bite through the cage and everything. I know that if either one of them got a hold of one of my 4 ferrets they would kill them. I can't take the ferrets with me to his house. To top it all off my parents are moving at the end of this month and I will have no place to live if I don't go to my boyfriends. As you all know Keegan has insulinoma and Maya goes in for adrenal surgery Tuesday. I don't know of anyone who I trust to take care of them and even if I could give them up. I am heart broken and very unsure of what to do. We have tried everything with the dogs and nothing works. If anyone has any advice please let me know. I believe that if I knew of someone who would take as great of care as I do of my babies it would be easier, but I don't. PLEASE HELP!!! Broken heartedly, Stephanie, Keegan, Maya, Max, and Kayla MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please see above, Stephanie, for info on posting to the FML, which has 3,000 plus subscribers. You'd have a much broader audience and potential for help. Why don't you post your city, state, in case someone can help out by taking care of your fur kids temporarily. My best to you. Hang in there. Lynn Mc. 2. Adrenal Disease: Bandit Date sent: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:13:45 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Hi, ( I hope Mike Jankee and one of the doctor's can respond) I'm confused and upset and need some feedback. Just some brief relative history on Bandit, he had adrenal surgery the end of April 00, both adrenals removed-well the left taken out and the right frozen with cryosurgery. Everything went well post op and a NaK test proved he would not need hormone replacements (although I need to recheck that in two months). I have been a little concerned though because I notice Bandit has hairloss on his tail and his fur got a little dry and itchy. His appetite is good when I feed him duck soup and he's active more so now then prior to surgery. Anyway I took him to a new vet supposedly very ferret knowledgeable to have him check a couple of things out 1) his bad breath 2) his soft, funny stools 3) and ask him about the hairloss on his tail. He said the bad breath had nothing to do with his teeth that they were fine he did say he had some gingivitis but not enough plaque for a scraping. He really didn't say id that was the cause for the bad breath. As far as the stools he said duck soup should not cause funny stool for two weeks he checked the stool for parasites and found none. He gave me an antibiotic that would help the stool problem and help his gums a little bit. As far as the hair loss on the tail he believes that's evident of Adrenal Disease, I explained the Adrenal Surgery he had. He did not believe in cryosurgery removing more cells then traditional surgery he said you can only get so close with a knife or cryo without risking damaging the vena cava. He said the reason Bandit is not on hormone replacement is because he still must have adrenal tissue or gland in his body otherwise the therapy would be an absolute. I explained that Dr. Weiss had explained to me that these hormones can sometimes be produced in other parts of the body, he disagreed firmly. He recommends that I check his hormone levels to see what's going on. Dr. Weiss never suggested that to me he only said to check his sodium and potassium levels. This vet also seems to think Bandit is obese at 3 1/2 pounds. Can anybody comment, I'm very confused and cannot make heads or tails out of this. One last question which test (blood work) can be performed that will check BG, hormone levels, and sodium potassium levels? Thanks so much, Christina 3. Surgery: Now or Later? Date sent: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:05:59 EDT From: "meagan quinn" Hi everyone, I have a quick question. If you had a ferret with adrenal (slightly swollen vuvla, lethargic, thirsty, losing hair at base of tail/back of legs) and the first appointment you could get was this Friday (two days from the time of this letter) OR Two weeks from now..what would you do? littlewhitegirl has adrenal. We realized it this week. I would be driving about 5 hours to go to Dr. Weiss to have the surgery (the surgeons here are too expensive and not as experienced). He is on Vaca next friday so I would have to wait two weeks. This friday is really inconvenient for everyone involved (except littlewhitegirl). So I don't know what to do. Do you think she would be ok waiting for two weeks? Or do you think I should ditch everything and go? Unfort, Fridays are the only option b/c we are travelling so far and I don't want her to travel the day of surgery.. Did that make sense? I hope so. Thanks for any input... Meagan Quinn 4. Lupron after surgery Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:37:19 EDT From: AFERRETVET@cs.com Hi Melissa, I agree with Dr Karen. If signs are reoccurring then there is enough of an adrenal gland to over produce hormones. Lupron would be my first choice to try to medically control the problem. Melatonin is also an option. I recommend Melatonin for clients that cannot afford Lupron, or are in an area where Lupron is not offered by a local vet, or demand an "all natural product." Melatonin is available in tablet form and also as an implant that slowly releases it over 3-4 months. The implant form is widely used by the mink industry. The company that makes the implants is currently researching it in ferrets with adrenal gland disease. So far early results have been real good. With the tablet form, the recommended dose is 1mg/kg once a day about 9 hours after sunrise. Jerry Murray, DVM 5. Sharing Memories Date sent: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:58:30 -0500 From: "JLO" Share memories of our first ferret at Rainbows Bridge. Yesterday was one year since he crossed and we miss him dearly. http://www.rainbowsbridge.com/residents/Chaos001/resident.HTM Thanks for all your support and fostering to ferret families. Susan Jones 6. Replies: FAIML #432; June 6, 2000 Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 04:19:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "sharon wagner" I also have a 7 year old. He sleeps about 20 out of 24 hours also. He had tail amputated, tumors removed from pancreas, lymph node removed and adrenal gland removed. I usually watch if my 3 year old( who is very playful sleeps also) then I know it is the change in weather or something. I did notice they play during the night when I am sleeping between 1 and 4 a.m. because when I come down the steps they are both bright eyed and bushy nailed. M y 7 year old never did play a lot but when the little one goes after him to play then he does but it only lasts about 10 minutes or so, so i assume that may be normal for your 7 year old, however I am not a vet, this is only my opinion as I have a seven year old also. As long as he eats, drinks, and wakes up I don't get upset anymore becaue about 2 months ago, I thought I would have to put him to rest. 7. Replies: FAIML #432; June 6, 2000 Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:22:18 -0400 From: "Melissa" >1. urgent post >Date sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:39:34 -0500 >From: "SAM MANGHAM" >.....The 7 year old female (Ricki) had an left adrenal gland removed and >a tumor >on her pancreas......My question for her is that so no longer exhibits >sign of seizure and coma >but still sleeps 23 out of 24 hours a day. If this normal? Is it because she >is so old? If you're concerned that the blood sugar may still be a problem, it would be best to get a fasting in-house blood glucose test done on her to check her levels. If her blood sugar is still low, she may need to go back on the pred. >My little 4 year old Lucy is the one I am very worried about. She had a left >adrenal gland also removed. She is doing worse since the surgery 2 weeks ago >(actually worse than before surgery). She almost stopped eating, not at first >but just last week. She is down to a 1lb 6 oz........Her vulva is still very >swollen......It hasn't helped. She does not want to get out of bed and I can >see pain in her eyes. She was my very active ferret, staying awake and playing >for at least 2 hours everytime she was awake. She makes a teeth grinding noise >when she eats, what is that? Teeth grinding is a symptom of abdominal pain. Possibly from the surgery, or more likely from ulcers which may be a result of the stress from surgery. >.....The vet said that she thinks she is maybe putting out >hormones some where else and if that is the case that there is nothing to do >about it. Does that sound right? Aren't there some medications to help with >this? Is your vet a ferret expert? Or is it a "regular" vet who just sees ferrets from time to time? It's more likely that your ferret is getting *fewer* hormones than before, not more. There are medications that can help with this. There are also medications that can help with ulcers if that's the cause of your ferrets' tooth grinding. A second opinion from a more experienced ferret vet may be in order. -Melissa 8. idea for two post surgery Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:57:37 -0400 From: "rufina" >1. urgent post >Date sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:39:34 -0500 >From: "SAM MANGHAM" > >I posted for the 1st time about 3 weeks ago with 2 ferrets about to have >surgery. They have now both had their surgeries and one is doing well and the >younger one not well at all. > >The 7 year old female (Ricki) had an left adrenal gland removed and a tumor on >her pancreas. The path came back probably pre-cancer on the pancreatic tumor >but not definite. She is off the pred and has not had any episodes of the >insulinoma since surgery. The vet told me that those tumors will probably come > back. My question for her is that so no longer exhibits sign of seizure and >coma but still sleeps 23 out of 24 hours a day. If this normal? Is it because > she is so old? not much of a clue on this, but is she eating *enough*? my little girls always sleep more when they are not really eating enough - i think they ar eating and they really aren't. so i offer them some hadnd fed stuff as a supliment - the A/D concoction i mention below... >My little 4 year old Lucy is the one I am very worried about. She had a left >adrenal gland also removed. She is doing worse since the surgery 2 weeks ago >(actually worse than before surgery). She almost stopped eating, not at first but >just last week. She is down to a 1lb 6 oz. I am getting her to eat babyfood off >of my finger and she will still eat some kibble. have you tried mixing the babyfood with some A/D? it's a canned food for sick animals, runs about $1 for a can - you HAVE to get it from the vet. i mix a big spoon of the A/D with about an equal amount of gerber's turkey rice #2 food, stip it up good and warm it slightly in the microwave. 10 secs and stir, ten secs and stir, till its about skin temp. (like you would do a baby's bottle) don't heat it all as once, it cooks it and they hate it. always stir well. then i offer it to whoever with a dropper (one of the droppers from a bottle of cephadrops - the dropper holds 2ml, and has a big opening.) a syringe might work as well. they seem to eat more at first if they don't have to struggle or work to get it. it could be that she just isn't strong enough to eat enought to make her get well. another thought is does her belly hurt or is she nauseated? the teeth grinding could be part of that. what i used to do was give them a little pepto about 15 mins before eating. warning: you will wear a lot of it and it will stain your walls ;) it seemd to help a bit. BUT now my vet has perscribed some Carafate for the one ferret i have that is showing wierd signs following surgery 2 weeks ago. it's an ulcer med and seems to be helping. does she shiver after you feed her? > Her vulva is still very swollen. I >took her to the vet on Friday and she gave her a shot of depo something to try OH NO!! i hope it wasn't depo-medrol.... the vet here gave my ferret that and it made her sleep all the time and she wouldn't eat and it was JUST AWFUL!! two other vets told me that giving depo-medrol to a ferret just complicates any adrenal symptoms. I COULD BE WAY OFF BASE HERE - please keep thet in mind. but i know my little girl has never been the same since she had it, her skin sores got worse.... i hope your kiddo got something else. what i did was make sure to hand feed my little girl, and after about 3 weeks (it's a time release stuff) she started showing some improvment. this was after a trip to another vet who gave her a vitimin shot and some appetite 'encourager' vitimin drops. just don't despair, keep feeding her and hang on...if what happened to you is what happened to me. >and get all the pus and stuff to come out of out vulva. It hasn't helped. She does >not want to get out of bed and I can see pain in her eyes. She was my very >active ferret, staying awake and playing for at least 2 hours everytime she was >awake. She makes a teeth grinding noise when she eats, what is that? I took >her in for her stitches to be removed today and asked for more blood work to >find out what is wrong. The vet said that she thinks she is maybe putting out >hormones some where else and if that is the case that there is nothing to do >about it. Does that sound right? Aren't there some medications to help with >this? > >Sorry this is so long - but I need some input. > >Thanks, Dawn i hope i was helpful and that your kiddos are feeling better real soon.... lisa 9. response to urgent post 6-7-00 Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:44:04 -0400 From: "Michele Walz" I am new to this and don't know if other readers respond to post or not. It sounds like Sam Mangham's ferret Lucy may need some pain meds. I am not a vet, but they helped my ferret feel better after surgery. It has been reccommended to use a liquid combination of Ferrevite (liquid vitamin) and Torbugesic (injectible). If his vet hasn't heard of this he can call the manufactures of torbugesic and get directions. Michele Walz __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ ----------------------- End of FAIML #433 -------------------------