From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 1:28 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #434; June 12, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #434; June 12, 2000 1. FAIML #433; June 8, 2000 2. Need Advice for Moxy 3. Update on Sabrina 4. Replies: FAIML #433; Bandit 5. Replies: FAIML #433; June 8, 2000 6. Is this significant? The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. FAIML #433; June 8, 2000 Date sent: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 04:33:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "sharon wagner" My Cutie had major surgery last September and placed on Prednisone 1/2 twice a day. He still has not got his hair back, however, he is starting to get peach fuzz. He is eating well, drinking and plays however, he is constantly chewing at his hair that is starting to come back after six months, and then starts chocking. Like he is choking on hairballs and constantly scratching like he is itchy. I read on this web to place oil on his fur to stop him, but I wasn't too happy doing that. I even use hairball treatment and he still chocks about twice a day. I now bathe him twice a week in oatmeal bath treatment and when I catch him biting at his fur I put bittle apple on him and it sees to stop him. I got all this info from this site and had many responses to help me with this. I can't believe 9 months and he is still bald, with just peach fuzz. He had his tail amputated, lymph node removed, tumores removed from left adrenal gland however they could not remove right one because of fear of losing him during surgery because it is so close to the vena cava. 2. Need Advice for Moxy Date sent: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:05:05 -0400 From: "Sally St. Germain" I'll try to make this as short as possible. Moxy had her left adrenal out in Sept of 98. It was positive for adrenalcortical carcinoma. She did well after surgery, grew all of her hair back etc. About 9 months later she started showing signs of the right adrenal being affected. Because of her age and because we knew it was cancer, the vet and I decided not to put her through another surgery. I started her on essiac, and Timmy's Tonic and she was doing really well. She started showing more signs, like hair loss and vulvar swelling. I then was in contact with the University of Guelph and after consultation with Dr. Taylor we tried Moxy on the 1 month lupron. She did really well, gained her weight back, grew her hair back and her vulva returned to it's normal size. We went and got the second 1 month shot and a month later we got the 3 month shot. She was doing so well we were discharged from Guelph and our own vet would be able to give the 3 month shots. The lupron was shipped from Guelph. She needed the next 3 month shot a little early as she was again losing the hair on her tail and her vulva was swelling again. That shot was given in April. She did grow back some of the hair on her tail, but the vulvar swelling never did decrease. This time too, she has become really restless. She is pacing up an down the ramps in her cage and has lost .4 lbs since April. Dr. Cathy was in contact with Dr. Taylor and he said that sometimes ferrets don't respond as well to the 3 month depot and suggested that we put her back on the 1 month depot, which we did. we gave her the 1 month depot on Thurs., only 3 days ago. I have 3 questions here. Is it possible that the lupron loses it's effectiveness when it's frozen? It was still frozen when it arrived and Moxy was injected the same day it arrived. Is it possible that is why she did not respond so well? Question # 2 is regarding the pacing. Is it a symptom of the adrenal? She has never done this before. The only way I could get her to rest at all was to let her out of her cage and set her up in my bedroom.She found an old purse under my bed and curled up in that and slept like a baby. She is now back in her cage and seems to have settled. I'm a little worried as I have never seen her pace like that before. I have also heard of a product called Rescue's Remedy. Does anybody know what it is and would it help the restlessness? A lady who runs a shelter in Toronto says she uses it for rescued ferrets and ferrets who are going to new homes from the shelter. I will be in contact with her to see if it may help Moxy, but in the meantime if anyone can answer any of my questions or offer any advice I would be very grateful. BTW, Moxy will be 8 years old in July. She is my first ferret and was purchased at a pet store. She is a Hagan ferret and was spayed at 6 months old. Thanks in advance for any info or advice you can give. Sally St. Germain and her 12 Little Saints." Hi.....my name is Sally.....I am a ferret-a-holic!!!!! 3. Update on Sabrina Date sent: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:08:25 -0400 From: "Scott Driver" Quick update on my little Sabrina, who is presenting adrenal signs again shortly after her left adrenalectomy. She got a 4-mo. depot of Lupron on June 1st, and her vulvar swelling has already receded significantly in only eight days... also, it looks like she's growing in guard hairs on the areas with hair loss. I know it's premature to get too hopeful, but preliminary signs suggest that the Lupron's doing what it's supposed to be doing. I'd say we'll be doing surgery on the right gland down the road, but since her first surgery was March 29th, I'm happy that we might have bought her some time to goof off. Luckily, she's a good surgical candidate as she's young and hardy as a weed, and the vet who'll be doing the surgey is ferret-competent. We'll be updating the (out-of-town) vet on June 15th, and I'll update to the list then. One question: what do you keep in an insulinoma crash kit? We have corn syrup, baby food, and a big syringe to deliver the goods... is there anything else we should keep on hand? I know that pancreatic problems often follow closely on the heels of adrenal abnormalities, and I'd like to be prepared. Thanks to everyone for their time and assistance. Scott Driver Brother to Rorty and Sabrina cdriver@wvu.edu 4. Replies: FAIML #433; Bandit Date sent: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:42:08 EDT From: AFERRETVET@cs.com Hi Christina, Your new vet is right. If both adrenal glands are completely removed then the ferret will need meds to maintain sodium and potassium levels (such as pred, saline water, percorten-v injections) and cortisol levels, and to stay alive. People and animals will die if both adrenal glands are removed and no meds are used (from hypoadrenal ,which is called Addison's disease). An in house blood glucose test is a fast and easy test that can be done at your vets office in a few minutes. Sodium and potassium levels will take more blood and is usually sent out to a lab, but some clinics have the machine to run electrolytes also. Blood hormone levels are done at the U of Tenn. lab. This will tell you which hormone(s) is being overproduced by the adrenal gland (likely the right gland). The options for treatment are basically a second surgery or to try to control the right adrenal gland with Lupron, or with melatonin. I also think cryosurgery did not kill all of the adrenal tissue and the right adrenal gland has "regrown". Jerry Murray,DVM 5. Replies: FAIML #433; June 8, 2000 Date sent: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:25:48 -0400 From: "Melissa" >1. Subject: Help soon with attacking dogs! >Date sent: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:06:41 EDT >From: JHerge9760@aol.com My suggestion would be to make ONE room the ferret room. Even when the ferrets are caged, keep the door to the room closed at all times. You may also want to start giving your boyfriend ferret bedding w/ the ferret scent on it and have the dogs sleep w/ it. Or even tie it around their necks like a bandana. That may help them get used to the smell so it's not so unusual to them. Keep throwing some t-shirts or sweat shirts in the cage w/ the ferrets and when it's all "ferrety" instead of washing them, give them to your boyfriend. Get your boyfriend to sneak these in when they're sleeping ( or tie them on them ) and make sure they don't start using these as tug-o-war towels or toys!! -Melissa >3. Surgery: Now or Later? >Date sent: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:05:59 EDT >From: "meagan quinn" > >Hi everyone, > >I have a quick question. If you had a ferret with adrenal (slightly >swollen vuvla, >lethargic, thirsty, losing hair at base of tail/back of legs) and the >first appointment >you could get was this Friday (two days from the time of this letter) OR Two >weeks from now..what would you do? .....Dr. Weiss......is on Vaca next friday >so I would have to wait two weeks. Well you'll get this response too late because it *is* Friday now! Even so, if the ferret seems ok and like she isn't in any pain or discomfort, I'd consider waiting until the vet was back from vacation in case there were any post surgery complications. -Or I'd find another trusted vet to do the surgery before then if there was one available. I think sooner is better, but adrenal surgery isn't usually an emergency surgery (though it can be), and I personally would feel better knowing the vet I trusted was in town following the surgery. If you've already decided to wait the two weeks, I'd take this time to have some preliminary bloodwork done. A full bloodcount and a fasting in-house blood glucose. I'm interested in why she's so thirsty and lethargic. It could be there's another problem and you may be able to address it in these next two weeks prior to surgery to get her in better shape for it. Maybe sub-q fluids depending on the cause. -Melissa _________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 6. Is this significant? Date sent: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:31:22 -0400 From: "Peggy" A friend posted this to a BB and no one seemed to have an explaination. Opus was recently diagnosed with the start of insulinoma. Her post is quoted below "OK, I have a question for all the ferret parents out there who are giving their fuzzbrats prednisone. I don't think mine is Pediapred, but it might be. It's in liquid form and is a bright translucent pink, and Opus seems to like it pretty well, even though it is strong enough that he shakes his head the way the cowboys do in the movies after they throw back a shot of rotgut. But for the next half hour or so his tail is bottlebrushed, and he does a lot of strange scampering around. The oddest thing is, right after he has his medicine, he runs into the diningroom and runs back and forth through the vertical blinds in front of the sliding glass door. Maybe they feel good on his back? Once he has them totally jangled, he moves on to other scamperings. He's always been a strange little boy, but this is unusual even for him! Anyone else experiencing Strange Scampering, with or without bottlebrush?" Thanks, Peggy ----------------------- End of FAIML #434 -------------------------