From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #44 - Max surgery! ( Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #44 - Max surgery! ( Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:16 Hi there! Thank you all so much for posting and being here! Of greatest import, MAX is heading into surgery today, so let's all wish Max and Michael well! We'll be awaiting word on Max, Michael, and I'll be thinking of you both tomorrow. We're three hours behind now, so Max may be in process or close or even finished. Wally's adrenal problem is right-sided too, and his tumor is so large, like a breakfast sausage somewhere between golf- and racket-ball sized lengthwise, and so enwrapped around the vena cava, it's deemed inoperable for now, while his vet checks into vena cava ligation for this large of tumor. From a needle biopsy (all that could be gotten, as the tumor was oozing so) two pathologists have indicated it's adrenal. Wally will be starting on Lysodren tomorrow, which is now today and he lapped up his first dose in ferretone. Mom had a knot in her stomach, but also some relief that we're doing something for that tumor. Michael, we're using a different protocol than the one developed by Susan Brown, probably the one you may have tried. Rather than a week on and then shifting days off and on, it's three days on and two off, and so forth adjusted as the fuzzies will tolerate. Perhaps comparable to your bad experiences, is that that Pam Franklin, who has been posting here about Oreo recently, started Oreo with the seven days on (at 50 ml per kilogram weight, so she started at 30 ml with her tiny Oreo), then two days off, and upon starting one day again Oreo crashed and ended up in a emergency clinic (where prednisone, vitamin B and lots of sub-q fluids were given). Pam backed off on the dosage, but continued on a pulsed dose, and Oreo now has hair growth, increased energy, and her vulva is going down, about six weeks after starting Lysodren. Oreo will get an estradial test soon to see if the disease is indeed truly abating at the adrenal tumor level. My vet-guru/ferret lover Cathy Johnson-Delaney, DVM, who's fert did well for three years on Lysodren, thinks that starting with the "pulsed" dose (three days on, two days off, though she's also mentioned five days on initially in a recent article so I'll talk to her about this when she gets back from Australia) makes a big difference because the dead adrenal tissue is given a chance to be flushed out of the body. Seven days of Lysodren is just too much initially, she says. Let's hope we have truly found a more safe protocol for those fuzzies who have no other option. I often don't get a chance to scour things like I should, but the Moni juice postings look interesting. I'm glad Bobo is doing well, Dave. If I recall (and I should look it up but am exhausted), Bob has recently had some adrenal tissue removed and is improving as a result. Troy Lynn. We're using a non-lactose filler in the Lysodren here in Seattle (Pam and I). It was Pam's idea, since ferret's are lactose intolerant, as I understand. Any thoughts on this? Also, Troy Lynn, since this is a chemo drug and you've mentioned being very careful not to get it on the skin (and Pam has too, and said it could be absorbed into the skin), what about worries about Petey shaking it every which way? Also, what dose of Lysodren per kilogram of weight is Petey getting, and how many days per week was he put on Lysodren inititally, and eventually? And ALSO (always another also), Mark isn't on the list so unless you cc'd him he won't get your message. Dixie! Good to hear from you again. You wrote: "I hope Max is managing better. I'm thinking about him everytime one of mine jumps in the litter box." Having lost a sweet adrenal kid, Percy, who once in present tense "jumps in the litter box", but has now passed away, I always recall how a vet or two told me that an enlarged prostate was not a symptom of adrenal problems... ...and how I learned that it most definitely is... and that it is important at this point soon to try and treat the disease, be it with surgery or Lysodren/and or Lupron, at least, for the enlarged prostate. Although Percy had exploratory and a portion of his right adrenal removed, and his hair grew back in for awhile, the increased urination continued, he had urinary tract infections, then he blocked up one day... His estradial was very high at the time of his death. I'll sure let everyone know how we do on Lysodren with Wally, and I know Oreo's doing great, so, we can hope! Anyway, I've certainly added my 0.98 today!! I should have put this in a post, but got carried away... Adrenal List #44, dated Sept. 5, 1997 1. Adrenal List #43 - Lysodren? 2. Morinda/Noni (post) 3. Bobo update 4. Noni Juice/Please post 5. Adrenal List #43 - Lysodren? 6. Lysodren, Max, etc. 7. ct: ml's vs. cc's 8. Nickodemus Update POST 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:18:15 +-1200 Subject: RE: Adrenal List #43 - Lysodren? Hey all Sterling here: I am always lurking and watching your progress and saying my prayers for you fuzzbutts, and Now I find I can answer a question so here goes: As for maintenance on Lysodren Lydia lived two years after her recurrence of adrenal problems taking lysodren in the following dose......1 capsule every day for eight days and then 1 every three days until the symptoms (swollen vulva) subsided and then we would stop entirely for a week and wait.....if the swelling started again I would go again one every day for eight and then , then every three......the capsules were 50 mg. This worked for us for quite a while.... Feel free to write me to inquire further. sterling 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:20:54 -0400 From: Rick Riley Subject: Morinda/Noni (post) Dear Joanne (and anyone else interested), Since Morinda is a network marketing, mail order co., the only way to purchase Noni is from an independant distributor or by calling the Morinda retail order #1-800-445-8596 and giving them the distributor's id# who referred you. I have been a distributor since April, but I have been a ferret owner since 1992 and began purchasing the product for me and them and ended up becoming a distributor so I could keep my household supplied at the lowest cost. I have held back on posting anything about this incredible stuff because I was afraid people would think I was trying to sell them something. That is why I say, if you know someone who is a distributor near you and you can get it from them, do it. If you e-mail me, I will give you my id#. I do not wish this to be an advertisement. I will also be more than happy to send to anyone who wants it, literature about the product and testimonials from people who's lives it has changed. I have seen it do amazing things and I wouldn't go without having it on my shelf. I picked up a rescue ferret (MF, female, 5+yrs.)who was bald, malnourished, over heated, nearly blind and barely able to walk a couple of steps without stumbling and running into things. I started her on 6 drops of Noni a day immediately with supplemental feedings. Within a week, she was growing a new coat, fat, walking and running everywhere with no stumbling and her eyesight even seemed improved. Now granted all this could happen with a good high vitamin supplement and lots of feedings but the fact that it happened so fast was encouraging. The real test came when after a month on Noni, I finally exposed her to my other 9 who are still ECE contageous. Within 2 days, she was showing signs of ECE runny yellow poop, in two more days, it was grainy, by the end of the week, it was gone. Besides a couple of days of not wanting to eat her dry food, she hardly skipped a beat. What took my healthy troop 9 weeks to get over, she got over in 1 week on Noni (and she's an elderly ferret). I am not a vet and can not prove this but I believe the Noni strengthened her immune system so well that when exposed to the virus, she was able to fight it off without a hitch. It is the BEST immune builder I know of. My family and others I know of that take it regularly tell me they have not had a cold last for more than a day since they've been on it. I could go on with story after story, but I won't take up your time. I am enclosing a trascript of a conversation with a vet in Kentucky who is using Noni in his practice. You may want to make a copy to have available for your vet. You won't believe what it's doing for animals. And I haven't even gotten into what I've seen it do for people. Please forgive my enthusiasm and read on. For the Ferrets, Carin Riley Development Committee Chairperson South Florida Ferret Club and Rescue, Inc. Enclosure: Transcript taken from a May 1997 conference call with Dr. Tran D.V.M., who owns and operates an animal emergency center in Kentucky. Dr. Tran was trained in the U. S. and has practiced emergency and trauma medicine for the past 15 years He has treated over 72,000 emergency cases. Since January, 1997, he has been actively using Tahitian Noni juice in over 2,000 cases. "September when [my friend] excitedly told me about Morinda and Noni juice, I said to myself, 'Oh boy, another one of those aloe vera juice or blue green algae programs.' But out of consideration for the lady, I reluctantly let her sign me in and order a case of Noni for trial. On the day it arrived, my aunt in France called me and told me that her daughter was dying of AIDS so I Federal Expressed a bottle to her. I'm not going to tell you how life saving that action was because of company policy but it was enough to convince me to try the product on me for my I5 year old osteoarthritis in my backbone and my 30 year old asthma and on my wife for her 5 year old chronic fatigue syndrome and nervous depression and my son's debilitating migraine headaches. The result was so dramatic that I started to use it on my four legged patients of all types: dogs, cats, pocket pets and birds. So far I have dispensed Noni juice for more than 2,000 cases. I usually send home anywhere from I oz. for birds to 8 oz. for the biggest dog. In all my 35 years of practicing traditional and holistic veterinary medicine, I have not run into a health product so versatile and so universal in uses like Noni juice. In fact if I were banished to a remote island somewhere, and were allowed to bring along only one health product for my own use, I would bring with me Noni juice without hesitation. According to it's characteristics you can use it for just about any condition because Noni with it's known alkaloid possesses anti-inflammatory, anti-carcinogenic, analgesic, immunogenic, healing and rejuvenating properties. Doesn't mean that it will help with every disease condition. Absolutely not. But it works for me more than 90% of the time. My success rate in dealing with various conditions has been very encouraging to say the least. In my business, if a therapy does not work, I know right away from customer feedback. In my use of the product to treat my patients, I found that Noni works best when used in conjunction with other conventional or holistic substances. According to my experience so far, I have had good, fast results with Noni in dealing with the following problems: NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS: Recovery is much faster when Noni is used to treat things like vestibular syndrome, certain types of seizures, brain damage from trauma, spinal cord injuries from slipped or ruptured intervertebral disk, stroke. I had a few seizuring comatose or paralyzed dogs and cats that came in on a stretcher but walked out of here in a matter of hours or days. PAINFUL BONES AND JOINT PROBLEMS: Just like the testimonials of other health professionals, the best success I had was with the treatment of painful musculoskeletal problems such as disk syndrome, degenerative osteoarthritis of the backbone, crippling hip displasia in large dogs, dramatic sprain of leg joints, fractures of all types. I got such good results I stopped using allopathic pain killers, muscle relaxants and steroids all together and strictly use Noni alone or in combination with other holistic natural substances that do not cause side effects. I had a cat with a broken leg that healed in three weeks after I set the leg in stead of the usual 6 or 8 weeks. I had a dog that was run over by a car and the pelvis was fractured on both sides at many places and could not move. After a couple of weeks on Nonl and cage rest, you could not know that his pelvis was smashed. IMMUNE SYSTEM FAILURE PROBLEMS: These are rare conditions that are very difficult to treat with allopathic medicine. Things like liver failure with severe bile obstruction and jaundice, auto-immune hemolytic anemia, feline asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, inflammatory or irritable bowel disease. There was a cat that had diarrhea for three years and nothing seemed to help until I prescribed Noni and holistic nutraceuticals. SURGICAL PROBLEMS: My surgical patients all receive a vile of Noni after the operation because I found out that tissues heal in half of the time with the use of this healing substance. Besides it also controls post surgical pain and discomfort without side effects which is a definite plus. METABOLIC PROBLEMS: There are a multitude of these ailments that Noni can really help speed up the recovery. There is a condition that is particularly difficult to treat: acute pancreatitis. The vomiting is so severe and the pain is so bad that mortality is quite high. The books say that oral medication is a big no no. Wrong. With Noni orally, I was able to stop the vomiting in hours instead of days with injections. I have not lost any patients for months. All the other garden variety gastro-intestinal and respiratory conditions are just pieces of cake if I use Noni. It helps cure viral disease in dogs and cats that are incurable or extremely difficult to treat. Things like parvo or corona viral infection in dogs, feline leukemia, feline AIDS, feline infectious peritonitis in cats. Using Noni and colloidal silver in IV fluid, I've had more success with parvo than any other allopathic drug. Noni is known to boost the production of interlooken(sp?) too and strengthen the immune system to fight viral infections. I don't remember losing any more parvo cases this year. There is one crippling disease I would like to try Noni on and that's cancer. Research work has shown that Noni has proven anti-carcinogenic potential and ? doctor report shows very encouraging results in humans. This could turn out to be the best beneficial effect of Noni. If any one of you knows of anybody or his brother who have a dog or cat having cancer, please send them my way. We need to tell more people about this amazing health food." 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 06:55:03 -0600 From: dave adams Subject: Re: Bobo update Sorry I have not posted in a while. Bobo is doing fine and now has a reduced diet of the S/D feline chow. We are trying 2 days on 2 days off with more reduction soon. The reason is to try to keep the urine ph slightly acidic. So far this seems to be working but he may be back to normal anyway without the special diet. He as appearently lost all long hair except on his tail. He has full coverage elsewhere of short hair. His tail has the appearence of being about half his body diameter due to his short hair. He plays, eats and everything else ok. He has been taking on the largest in the bunch, Sugar over three lbs and winning. He has some spunk. Turning to the question of Morinda Citrofolia -- Noni-- ; if one goes to any internet search engine such as yahoo and searches for Morinda Citrofolia or Noni they will be able to get all the sources needed. It turns out there is a Hawaian company that has perfected a drying technique for the fruit and is marketing capsules of Noni. The plant was brought to the islands for medicinal purposes long ago and has thrived there. The other source seems to all go back to the company Morinda that sells the juice. One can order the juice from them directly on the internet. The only problem I saw was the absence of the bottle size. Price was high if it is a small bottle but the dosage mentioned for ferrets was small and a bottle should last a long time and if it works as well as mentioned the cost would be small. I have ordered a bottle. Dave Adams +now 18 fbs 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:20:32 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Noni Juice/Please post Hi Lynn, If you feel this post is appropriate for the list please post if not please let me know and I will forward to Joanne, I thought other people may have an interest. Thanks again for the wonderful list, I will update the list on Fiona & EB very soon. Joanne, I just received a bottle of the Noni Juice on Friday 8/29 today is Wednesday 9/3. Yesterday my little insulinoma Baby Fiona played with her ball for the first time in probably three months. She has been on pred going on three weeks with no difference in activity level, but within 4 days there has been a remarkable difference in her activity level. Prior to this I would wake her up, feed her the next thing I know she would have disappeared back to her hidey hole and that was it. Yesterday I woke her gave her some warm food, Noni Juice she ate, then she stood around the kitchen looking up begging she hasn't done that for months. Then we went outside and played in the grass walked in the creek for at least 20 minutes and when we got back to the house she cruised around and then went to sleep. It was absolutely wonderful having my little girl back to her (somewhat) old self. If you look up Noni Juice on the net you get their web page but I did not want to put my credit card number on the net to order from them I would suggest you contact Carin directly I think she could expedite the process. Hugs to all fuzzies. Jill Owned By Rupert, Fiona & Eb 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:30:15 -0600 From: Troy Lynn Eckart Subject: Re: Adrenal List #43 - Lysodren? Petey had his left adrenal removed and a few weeks later he started exhibiting symptoms again. Larry doesn't feel comfortable with right adrenals so we opted for Lysodren. (Caution: Make sure the symptoms are caused from a diseased adrenal when considering the use of Lysodren. Using Lysodren on a ferret with healthy adrenals can be lethal.) Our Pharmacist crushes the lysodren tablets into a fine powder then mixes it with lactose and puts it into individual dose capsules. The mg differs as the weight of the ferret differs. I put 1/2 cc of linatone/canola oil mixture into a measuring teaspoon then open the capsule and empty the powder contents into the teaspoon. Mix well with tip of syringe (no needle) and suck it up and slowly and gently drip it into the side of Petey's mouth. He use to take it willingly but has long since decided he doesn't want it anymore. He's showered me with it a few times (I shouldn't have adrenal problems :-)) so I have to keep him scruffed and wipe his mouth when we are done. Our pharmacist said that mixing it with the oil is a good idea as it makes the Lysodren time-released. Lysodren is suppose to be protected from saliva and not mixed with water or water based products. Petey has been on Lysodren for several months and is doing well. He has sparse fur, but at least he has some fur. No UTI's since the Lysodren kicked in. It took 4-6 weeks before I actually noticed an improvement. In the meantime, his attitude was so assertive that I opted for a Depoprovera injection to settle his hormones down (worked so well I asked Larry to give me one... but he wouldn't :-)) When we first started using Lysodren we tried a liquid mixture. The liquid caused nausea in all the 3 we tried it on. The capsules work well for us, as long as you stick with them and monitor the ferret(s) closely for adverse affects. Mark told me about the Lysodren capsules his pharmacist made and that is where I originally got the information. Mark - will you tell us all about your experiences please? Without them I don't know where we would be today. I'll always be greatful for you sharing the info with us. :-) Hugs to all. tle 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 17:17:06 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Lysodren, Max, etc. In response to the query about lysodren... I'm sorry to say that I can't be too informative, but in use with two different ferrets, I had nothing but bad results. In both cases, within two weeks, my guys got sick from it and I had to stop. I'm sorry that I don't recall the dosage, and in both cases, the lysodren was supplied by our vet in a liquid form, though definitely not a pill crushed up into ferretone. Guess that wasn't much help, but there ya go. Max is currently hanging in there and scheduled for exploratory surgery on Friday. We're doing everything we can to keep him comfortable until then. I'm even giving him subq fluids myself... something I never thought I'd be able to do. He doesn't make it any easier either. Ever try to stick a needle in a squirmy ferret that just wants to get out of there? Half the time I only get about 15cc's of ringers in him and have to pull the needle out for fear of hurting him while he's trying to get away, and that's with my wife helping to hold him still. Nutrical keeps his attention for about 10cc's worth and then he just wants to get out of there. We already know he has an enlarged right adrenal, which is probably the root cause of the problems, but what exactly is causing his bladder problem is still unknown. Amoxy and Baytril failed to do anything, so it's obviously not a simple bladder infection. I'll be at the clinic during surgery and I'm praying that they don't come out with some horendous news and I have to make a decision. Carin, I got the Noni juice from Angela, but since his surgery is the day after tomorrow, I haven't tried it. I figured I wouldn't see any results in a couple days and we'll see what happens after Friday. Please keep Max in your thoughts come Friday. He'll need all the help he can get. For the ferrets, Mike 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 21:26:33 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: ml's vs. cc's >In my first e-mail I gave you the wrong dosage on the Lysodren. The girl >at the vet wrote ml on one bottle and cc on another bottle. I am pretty >sure the dosage is 10cc of ferretone to one pill and I give Ali 1cc / day. cc and ml is the same amount. I don't know why they seem to use "cc" one time and "ml" the next, but it confused me the first time around. They gave me medication with the dosage listed in ml's and syringes to give it that were marked in cc's. You know us Americans and the metric system! For the ferrets, Mike 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 5 Sep 1997 00:49:10 -0000 From: dervish@scrye.com Subject: Nickodemus Update POST Hello Adrenal Mom's and Dad's I just heard back from the Vet on Nickodemus's blood workup. His estirol(sp?) levels are twice normal. That means that we still have the disease. :( The vet will send me a copy of the workup so I'll give you all exact numbers when I have them. On a positive note, Nickodemus has been off the antibiotics for more than a week and has no discharge. He seems active and happy and is not straining on th potty and is being a good eater/drinker. Thank you Lynn for making that list of Vena Cava Ligation experienced vets. I forwarded that on to my vet after talking to him about this possiblility. We may have to do this because Nickodemus's tumor was on the right side and may have become involved with the Vena Cava. It was a close call last time. I am not rushing to surgery because 1- I have to save for this, 2- Nickodemus has a very good quality of life right now. I also have to love on him for a while and get used to the idea of him going 'under the knife' again. I hope Max is managing better. I'm thinking about him everytime one of mine jumps in the litter box. -Dixie Carter ----------------------End of Adrenal List #44--------------------