From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 1:09 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #461 Sept. 10, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #461; Sept. 10, 2000 NOTE FROM MODERATOR: Hi. I'll be in Alaska (Ketchikan this time) for work all next week, back Sept. 19, so there will be no FAIMLs during that time. I'll get one more list out tomorrow before I leave, if there are messages. Of course, you can always post in the wonderful, daily Ferret Mailing List (see below paragraphs for info on the FML). Lynn McIntosh There are four messages in today's list: Help Please on Possible Kidney Problems Lupron side effects? stuff (replies) Danger for Ferrets FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:30:18 -0500 From: mary.rogers@verizon.com Help Please on Possible Kidney Problems Hey everyone! Need a little help for Buffalina, my little white girl. (I'm posting this to the FML and the FAIML in case there are subscribers not on both lists. I'd post to the ADV list, but I think most of you are on the FML already.) Buffy is a MF DEW around 4 years old. I've had her for a little over a year. She's a people ferret, not so keen on other ferrets, but tolerates a "few". She loves to give kisses and be held. She was rescued from a breeder with horrible conditions so I have no idea what "all" she went through before I adopted her. I know she just had left adrenal surgery when I adopted her and all her hair grew back, but the tail never filled in. Now her tail is pretty much hairless and she's itching which indicates to me adrenal again or it could be just seasonal hair loss on the tail. She has a lump/tumor on her right side. It could be right adrenal, but won't know without opening her up. She also has an enlarged spleen. She has an odor in that she doesn't "smell" like a ferret. My vet said she smelled like urine, that maybe one of her kidneys wasn't functioning properly. She does drink and pee a lot. My options are blood test, ultra sound, and/or surgery. I'm going to get the blood work done for sure and go from there. My problem is I'm concerned about doing surgery because she's been exposed to ADV and I don't want to compromise her. Please if any of you have any experience with kidney problems, please let me know! I really appreciate it! Condolences for the parents that have lost their munchkins to the bridge and prayers for the sick and needy "God's Little Clowns" (as Rick calls them)! Thanks, Mary and The 12 Munchkins Buffy - What do you mean, Mom, I don't smell like a ferret?--I look like one, well maybe a rat, but only because of my tail! Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 22:18:26 EDT From: Outlaw50@aol.com Lupron side effects? Can anyone tell me what side effects you've seen with Lupron? I got the 4 month depot. White Russian was found to be adrenal pursuant to the Tennessee Panel. He is not a surgical candidate due to him having Aleutian Disease. I've spoken with Dr. Weiss and he said the Lupron *shouldn't* harm him, but no studies have ever been done on adrenal disease in ferrets with AD. Russian got the injection yesterday and slept all day. Today he has been lethargic...laying around and staring most of the time, but eating and drinking normally. I'm watching him carefully, but I don't know what would be an "unusual" side effect. He also had some wheezing earlier, but that went away. Thank you. Judy Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:08:48 -0400 From: "Mary L. McCarty" stuff (replies) >noticed over time that Odo's fur has become somewhat thin and kind of brittle, >a glossy thick coat it is not. Do either of the meds or the insulinomas affect the >fur? Also, I noticed today for the first time that Odo had difficulty urinating. It How incredibly creepy. My Odo (aka Skinny) passed away from an insulinomic seizure on Wednesday afternoon (he was my second ferret and my only MF, surprisingly). Dale - prostate problems and the coat change are likely symptoms of adrenal disease, which as we all know, go hand in hand with insulinoma many times (my Odo had both). I've been dealing with a little adrenal guy with bladder problems. I use phenoxibenzamine (not correct spelling ), a bladder relaxer on him - it's a capsule that I mix in with ferretone. It works very well! I did have surgery done (both glands removed using cryo) and he's recovering wonderfully. >adrenal disease in the left gland. They recommend waiting and doing another >ultrasound in 3-6 months. I am not at all comfortable with this advice since Fee >is clinically showing a lot of the signs of adrenal disease and I would prefer to Melissa - I know Trish on the list (Hi Trish!) loves ultrasounds, but I find them a complete waste of money in *most* adrenal cases. If you have already seen an enlarged gland in the first ultrasound AND you have hairloss and behavioral changes, why wait and re-do it later? That is enough evidence for me that he is adrenal and surgery would be the next option, if he is a good surgical candidate. Perhaps your vet is not that experienced with the surgery? >I have tried to read up on adrenal disease in ferrets (including Ferret Central and >other commonly recommended web sites) but there is such a wealth of what >appears to be independent knowledge that is often conflicting . There is very >little consensus in what I have found. Mike Janke has a great site for adrenal and insulinoma info - please check it out for the latest, greatest info http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/. You can also try these other websites: http://www.ferretcentral.org http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index/html http://www.ferretdoctor.com (Dr. Weiss' website) >My core questions: (1) ANY recommendations for ferret or adrenal ferret >specific vets in the metro New York City area (I live in Hoboken, New Jersey >and work in the City) to offer a second opinion and discuss additional options >intelligently; My friend, Fran, uses AMC in New York, but since I'm not from there I have no idea if that is close to you >(2) what other tests can be done to determine adrenal disease and >what are the success rates in diagnosis; You can do the Univ of TN blood test to check his hormone levels. However, with the evidence you have so far, you may want to save that money and apply it to surgery or meds. >(3) are there any other possible causes >of hair loss on the tail; and Sure - hairloss on the tail can be caused by "ferret acne" - when the hair follicles become clogged with oil (you'll see little blackheads on the tail), stress, etc. However, with his behavioral changes and the enlarged left gland, it seems to be pointing to adrenal. >(4) any possible guidance on this. Definitely get a second opinion and check out Mike's site - call Dr. Weiss in Maryland or any of the other great vets experienced in ferret medicine on this list for a consult. I'm sure it will make you feel more confident in your decisions if you speak or email with them. I know it did for me. >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:59:30 EDT >From: FHbytheSea@aol.com >Re: FAIML #459; Sept. 12, 2000: > Male/Female adrenal differences; Lupron Lisa is right on the money. I always do surgery on the boys first - I've had them block and it's not something you want to experience (poor boys). Troy Lynn - I've only used Lupron in a few cases (1-month depot and showed no improvement whatsoever), so I'm not that familiar with it.. However, I was just told that Lupron only works on one or two of the adrenal hormones, not all of them. So if the elevated hormone is not one of the ones that Lupron affects, the shot would not work in that ferret. Can someone tell me if this information is correct (or explain it in a better way? ). I'd greatly appreciate it. Mary Mary McCarty-Houser, Director Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association of Centre County http://www.ferretrescue.com http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=9903&mid=114508 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 01:33:04 -0500 From: "EMA2560" Danger for Ferrets Hi Lynn, I hope I chose the right email address for you. I just received the following email and was wondering if you would want to post it to the list. Our little babies have enough problems without adding this to them. I have not posted yet but just love the Faiml list...it's too bad we have to all get together because of these problems instead of happier ones. Thanks so much for all the work you put into the list. I have learned so very much! Tinkerbell is in remission I think. I am unable to afford the surgery. But, I have tried several of the lighting and such ideas. But, the biggest thing I have found is the changing of her water from city water to well water. I found this out totally by accident. I was up to my Dad's house in Northern WI and of course took Tinkerbell with me. She just absolutely went nuts over his well water! So, I brought some back and have been giving it to her ever since. Now I know there is no cure other than surgery (and some meds) but her vulva swelling has gone done to normal and she has grown hair back around her neck under her collar and on her belly and on her tail!!!! I have also been doing some experimenting as suggested by some of the websites you sent me on varying the lighting she is exposed to especially when she is out playing. One quick question if I may: Where do you get Totally Ferret? I see it talked about so much but don't know where to get it. Thanks again for all your time and efforts. EvaMarie Arvey and Tinkerbell I got this from Ginger who has a mailing list about preventing animal abuse and rescuing animals..... Gingerlks@aol.com From: LisetteLu@CS.COM Poison Ferret Bowl: Please read The white ferret bowl with the bunnies and rabbits that my neighbors and I have been using is toxic: led lined. Mary of FAIR wrote to us in her newsletter to let us know. If you got yours at Petco, they will replace it, Mary writes. Know any rabbit people?? Please warn them. Lisette P.S. Main signs of lead poisoning in ferrets/rabbits Signs of lead poisoning:Weight loss, loss of appetite, vomiting, and lethargy. If your ferrets/rabbits have been drinking from the heavy ceramic white dish with black figures of ferrets and rabbits and they have these symptoms, see a vet right away and have a blood test done. ----------------------- End of FAIML #461 -------------------------