From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 10:21 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #466; Sept. 30, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #466; Sept. 30, 2000 There are ten messages in today's list: food suggestions for finicky ferret Jonesy Jilly/insulinoma Ferris Jasla has eye problems Problems with Noni Juice? More Questions About Odo Moxy is gone Longevity adrenal and insulinoma FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:19:25 -0700 From: "Ruth M" Subject: food suggestions for finicky ferret HI I'm Ruth I am a new subscriber to the mailing list.I currently have a 7 year old female that has been diagnosed with adrenal gland tumor. This is my second ferret that is going through this my first baby died at the age of 9 after dealing with this for 1 1/2 years.At the moment I'm having problem with her losing weight but she hates everything other than Iams kitten (she hates meat,even baby food!).If anyone has suggestions on things to try feeding her that she may like and might put some weight back on her let me know.Thankyou from the gang-Tabatha(7yrs),Bandit(6months),Sandy(6months). Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:47:19 -0500 From: "Sue Stout" Subject: Jonesy Hi, I took Jonesy to the vet this morning. Found out why he has been lethargic...Blood sugar was down to 43. Vet said prednisone reaches a point where it no longer is really effective. Vet gave him glucose and nutical orally and by the time we arrived home (45 minutes later), he had energy. First thing he did was go to food dish and start eating. He has lost weightsince his last weight check in April. He has dropped from 3pound 8 ounces to 3 pounds today. I knew he had lost weight just by the feel of him. I am starting Jonesy on PROGLYCEM 25ml twice a day. Also am supposed to give him Karo syrup 1cc and Nutrical 1cc twice a day. I am also to continue giving the prednisolone .5cc twice a day. My vet is still advising against surgery..says it only prolongs things . He says that it is impossible to get all the tumors off the pancreas, so will only help improve things for a short period of time. I am unsure at this time whether to push for surgery (an expense I am not sure I can afford) or just keep going like we are. Jonesy will be 5 this October. We will go back to vet in 3 weeks (vet wanted in 2, but I can't with work schedule and previous appointments) for another blood sugar check. Of course, if I feel something is changed, I will make it in somehow. I think the vet started trying to prepare me for what is ahead for Jonesy. He was telling me how he will get more and more lethargic and start seizing. Also said that he will reach a point where the vet usually starts recommending crossing the bridge. Sure hope he is very premature in this talk. I may have 6 furballs, but they are all very very special and I don't want to face even thinking this way. Thanks for listening (reading) Sue and Jonesy  MODERATOR'S NOTE: I'm guessing that Sue meant .25 ml Proglycem. Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:00:47 +0100 From: "Ulrike" Subject: Jilly/insulinoma Hello again I wrote about my Jilly last time, thanks for all the replies. I thought it would be easier to answer on this list. Jilly is 6 years old and not a good candidate for surgery. The pred made her very fat, she is looking a bit better now that she is off it. I used to give the prednisolone (pediapred) in cat milk, it dissolved nicely and I used to give it to Jilly after her mush. She didn't object to the pred milk and drank it real good. She just gagged when she had to eat. I live in Wales/ UK, in a very rural area. There are no ferret vets anywhere. The vets I use are very good though and I have the James G Fox book which I take with me if I take a sick ferret in. But I doubt they ever had to operate on a pancreas, not even in dogs or cats. Jilly has been on a mush for 1 3/4 years since she was diagnosed. I grind kibble and some yeast/ vitamin tablets in a coffee grinder and mix it with water, she likes that. She went off hard food when she was diagnosed... I feed my ferrets Arden Grange kitten food, the guy who developed Totally Ferret also helped develop this Arden Grange food so the two are very similar. It's the best food here, all the ferret foods have a way lower meat content and generally worse ingredients. Thanks you tle for telling me about the depot medrol injection, I will ask my vets whether they know/ have it. And thank you Wendi for the recipe, I'll give it a try. I hope this has cleared some questions. Jilly has been fine since that hypoglycaemic episode. I was just wondering what to expect now, how quickly the insulinoma progresses once the ferret starts to loose consciousness... Thanks again for all the help. Best wishes from Ulrike and Jilly, Jack, Igor, Bella, Tom, Mason, Baby, Dana, Fox, Reno, Rose, Jasmine, Barney and Spike Missing Angel and Hope West Wales Ferret Welfare http://www.ferretlove.freeserve.co.uk Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:02:11 -0500 From: teckart@oznet.ksu.edu Subject: Ferris Well coming up on week 5 and Ferris is the same. The lump has gone but he is more and more hairless as time goes on. My stress level is up as I worry about the prostate problems that can occur. He is still urinating but he dribbles at times and has urine burn on his tummy. sigh. I'm concerned that if we try another treatment we may cause more problems. If the Lupron is suppose to block and hormones and we try Proscar that also is suppose to block the hormones could we compound the problem and end up with the exact opposite - not enough hormones? And if we go into surgery and remove the right adrenal and the Lupron kicks in are we in trouble there too? My guess would be yes, so for now we continue to wait. sigh. I am going to try Drenamin with Ferris for now since it seems to be the safest of options at this point. Hugs to all. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:21:55 EDT From: ANITABEERS@aol.com Subject: Jasla has eye problems Hello Everyone, We have an 8.5 yr. old female named Jasla, and I noticed her left eye looked a bit swollen this past Monday. I just got back from the vet, and he's treating her eye for an abscess, but is concerned that it may be some kind of tumor behind the eye. He checked her mouth and teeth, and said they don't seem to be the cause. She's not showing any pain, which could be another sign it's a tumor rather than an abscess. In any case, does anyone have any thoughts or experience with fert eye problems. If so, I'd love to hear about it! Thanks! Anita Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:00:25 -0400 From: miralia@juno.com Subject: Problems with Noni Juice? I have seen "Noni juice" advertised in "Healthy Living" magazine, and there is a disclaimer that says people with kidney problems should not take it. I don't know why. I wish I could give it to my 7 1/2 year old Benny (who has insulinoma, adrenal tumors, and possibly Lympho) but he's had lots of bladder/prostate trouble, and one of his kidneys has been damaged. Any thoughts, anyone? -------------------------------------------------- Andréa -- miralia@juno.com --ICQ 74505608 --- ICQ & MSN messenger: moonferret http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Film/1630/index.html (never done) SCA --- Chiara Franco of Seareach --- Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:03:24 EDT From: Kgsalimy@aol.com Subject: More Questions About Odo Hi Dale, The symptoms you mention ... the hair loss, wiry coat, itchy skin, difficulty in urinating ... all seem to indicate possible adrenal disease, which quite often goes hand in hand with insulinoma. The difficulty in urinating concerns me ... this often happens in males with adrenal disease ... the prostate gland swells and blocks off the urinary tract. This happened to my Scat and he wound up having emergency surgery in the middle of the night, without which, he would have died before morning. I'm not trying to scare you, nor am I saying this would happen to Odo, I'm only relating my experience with Scat. In any case, I would definitely get Odo to the vet as soon as possible. In the meantime, there are several products on the market that will help to relieve Odo's itchy skin. I've used two of them ... one made by Professional Pet Products called "Ferret Fresh", the other was from Marshall's but I can't remember the exact name. They are spray on deodorizing conditioners that will help to relieve the itchiness caused by dry skin. Neither of them leave any buildup that I've noticed ... just keep in mind that they are temporary fixes and will not correct the problem but only relieve the symptoms. And, as always, keep his nails trimmed so he does not injure himself with the constant scratching. Kathy <>< *** Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2 *** Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:13:06 EDT From: Kgsalimy@aol.com Subject: Moxy is gone Sally, I am so sorry for your loss of Moxy, she sounds like a very special little girl ... one who will be sorely missed. Nothing I could say to you now would ease your pain or make your grief over her loss any easier to bear, but know that my thoughts and my prayers are with you. I'll hold my babies extra tightly tonight as I shed tears of grief for you and yours. Rest in peace, little Moxy. Kathy <>< *** Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. *** Hebrews 11:1 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:15:18 -0400 From: "Dale Nupp" Subject: Longevity Hello All: Ulrike wrote:" But yesterday I found her limp and totally "out of it" but a bit of honey on her gums brought her round. So I guess she has insulinoma for sure. My question is, how long do ferrets live for on avergae once they've got that far advanced that they become unconscious?" Ulrike: I read somewhere on the net that our fuzzies live, on average, 465 days after being diagnosed with insulinoma. That, of course, is an average. My vet tells me that he has been treating three fuzzies for insulinoma for over three years that had a documented age of five years when they were diagnosed. He says they are all now over eight years old and going strong. In my personal opinion, I think the more care a fuzzy gets, the longer he or she will last, Making sure she gets her meds, gets high protein food and gets brought out of seizures quickly will all help to give her a quality life. Rather than seeing this as a chore, which, of course, it can be, I take the position that this is my quality time with a special ferret. Good luck!!!!!! To everyone who responded to my questions again about Odo, many thanks. I guess its time to take a trip to the vet again and maybe open him up for surgery. Dale Missing Burt Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:34:05 -0600 (CST) From: "John Rosloot" Subject: adrenal and insulinoma > ... these diseases are almost unheard of in New Zealand and, if I > remember correctly, European ferrets have a very low incidence of these > diseases. Some blame the high content of grain products in the kibble > we feed our kids, some say it is due to our ferrets being exposed to > artificial lighting for extended periods of time ... but most > researchers and veterinarians seem to think the main cause is early > neutering. Most of our pet ferrets come from large breeding farms where > they are neutered prior to five or six weeks of age. Ferrets who are > neutered after they reach sexual maturity at about six months of age > grow up with the benefit of all those extra hormones, which seems to > reduce the incidence of adrenal disease. If a serious study were done, > we would probably find that the majority of those ferrets who live 10, > 12 and more years were neutered later in life. Years ago I'd heard the theory that early neutering may be detrimental. That's one reason I bought Sammy; he was still whole. I had him neutered at about 1 year old. Actually, Sammy is a daddy; I lent him to a breeder I knew and he fathered three litters. I heard all but one of his babies inherited his sweet, affectionate disposition, though I also worry now that they inherited his health problems. In addition to cataracts at age 2, Sammy developed insulinoma at age 4 and adrenal at age 5 (actually closer to age 4.75 and 5.75). Sammy had seemed so robust and healthy when he was young, and was so sweet, breeding him seemed like a good idea. You just never know. I would never breed again based on this experience. And also because I had no idea what I was in for having a whole male in the house; his scent became so much stronger, he marked his territory all the time, and he became so aggressive I couldn't keep him with the others. I do know Sammy lost about 1/3 of his weight and his coat darkened dramatically after neutering, so it apparently had a strong effect on his system even as an adult. Cassie on the other hand was store bought and spayed early, yet lived what I'm told was a reasonably long life of nearly 8 years, and never displayed a serious health problem till the end (though she did die of malignant cancer, so that's pretty darned serious. I guess she was saving it up). Oh well, a data sample of two individuals doesn't tell you anything. Sammy might have been prone to these illnesses with or without early neutering. Cassie may or may not have lived longer had she been spayed later. No way to know. I *have* heard from someone who claims to have been breeding ferrets for 15 years with no adrenal problems, and who says he knows another breeder with an 18 year old ferret. He says the only one of his ferrets to ever develop cancer did so after receiving vaccinations; he never vaccinates his own ferrets and they never get ill. I don't know what to do with claims like this; they're so far outside the common ferret experience and accepted wisdom. I'm not about to stop vaccinating based on one report. > > I'd love to get more ferrets, but the last few years of worrying > > over various illnesses and the grief of losing them after too few years > > make it a hard choice. > > After I lost my first two ferrets (Scat in 1995 at age 6 1/2 to adrenal > disease and Skitty in 1997 to insulinoma at age eight), I felt the same > way. The grief over their loss was something I didn't think I could go > through again. After being ferretless for only three months, I > succumbed to the charms of Sparkle ... a cute little Siamese kit in a > pet store who kissed me on the nose when I picked her up. Just a few > short hours after taking her home, I realized what had been missing > from my life for the past three months ... laughter ... and joy ... and > unconditional love. And I realized that, even though the pain of their > loss is so very hard to bear, the joy they bring into my life makes it > worth it. I'm just wondering if I wouldn't get the same joy from a longer lived, less illness prone animal, say a cat for instance. Although, I find it hard to believe anything could be as endearing as a ferret. They are *so* sweet. :) > Ferret math has since struck me several times and I now have eleven > ... I can't ever imagine a life not filled with silly weasels. I seem to be immune to ferret math. Even when I had three, I felt the perfect number for me had been two; although I certainly wouldn't have given up any of my three babies for the world. Now I'm down to one again. But I'm not sure I'll get any more as long as I have Sammy. He doesn't seem to mind being an only ferret. Maybe after he's gone I'll get a pair of babies and start again. > A breeder I spoke with (on the east coast) routinely gets 8 lb boys > (full grown obviously) and has had no incidences of adrenal cancer or > insulinoma in her last 4 years of breeding (whenever possible she has > been actively breeding for health - no history of cancer in the > family). Any chance of her adopting to someone a couple of thousand miles away in another country? (I mean me. :) Although, 8 lbs? I thought Sammy was a chubster when he was 4.25. Bud and Cassie were only around 2 to 2.5, and Sammy's currently 3 lbs. -- John Rosloot, Caregiver to Sammy With loving memories of my dear departed Buddy, and my precious little Cassie-angel http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~john/ferrets john@cs.uregina.ca ----------------------- End of FAIML #466 -------------------------