From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #55 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #55 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:16:46 Hi there! Dr. Karen, thank you so much for posting about your upcoming article. This sounds like very good news! Where can we read the article? Will send personal thank yous, too, but... Dave Adams sent me the teflon tubing he mentioned in a recent past list. There's plenty! Thank you so much, Dave! It looks so tiny, tiny! I will give some to my vet(s). It could well save lives. Also will search back lists for message telling about it's use in saving Bobo's life. Thank you again so much for sharing this with me. By the way, if I'd known you lived in El Paso, I'd have called. I was stuck in that airport for three hours! List members Margaret and Dave Lehmann (who recently visited us in Seattle from Hendersonville, North Carolina) also sent me a lava bed (and beautiful snammock = snuggle hammock). Just got it and will be testing it soon and will about results. Margaret has used it for post-surgery fuzzies, and it sounds like it works great! Will post details after we use it... Anyway, this is sort of a "Lynn" list. So, if you're posting to each other things that could be learned from by the whole group, don't forget to cc: the list! Fuzzy hugs to all! Lynn PS. I have written up a turkey soup recipe we've been using that our fuzzies really love and will be sending it to those who requested it. If anyone else would like the recipe just drop an e-mail. Thanks! L Adrenal List #55, dated November 2, 1997 1. Post-surgical Care (please post) 2. Reply: 4 Surgeries; Expressing Bladder 3. U Tenn Adrenal Panel; Adrenal Disease 4. WOW! 5. Reply: WOW! 6. FML Post: Adrenal Surgery 7. FML Post: Artificial Light & Adrenal Tumors 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:56:22 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Subject: post surgical care (please post) Folks, Just did alot of research for that adrenal article (thanks again for all the info!!) and the majority of bilateral adrenalectomy ferrets do quite well with a short course of prednisone post-op tapered off over 2-4 weeks. After that they are fine, with prednisone administered during times of high stress if needed. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Reply: 4 Surgeries; Expressing Bladder > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:14:57 -0800 > From: Chris & Shelley Knudsen > Subject: Four Adrenal Surgeries > > Just got back into town from Omaha earlier, we did our 4 adrenal surgeries > today. I am definitely glad I traveled the 2 1/2 hours for them. Even my > the clamps. Jake, my 5yr male with a very distended abdomen and wheezing > had a tumor embedded on his left adrenal the size of a quarter in diameter. > He is probably going to have the hardest time healing due to some > complications during surgery. Tonka, 4yr old male stray turned into the > Humane society with no hair had a left adrenal tumor that apparently was > attached to a little of everything. Abby, a 4yr old female whose only > symptom was a swollen vulva had a right adrenal tumor firmly attached to > the vena cava. And Tiger, my own little girl, whose only symptom was a > swollen vulva, and who only has been showing symptoms for 3 months, had > small tumors on both sides. So Dr. Curry took out both adrenals on her. > > In regards to Tiger having both adrenals removed, I remember someone > posting about the hormone replacement therapy? My vet suggested pediapred > every day, but I was wondering if there was something that was better for > her. She is about 3 yrs old. I am also worried about Jake, he is not > doing too well tonight. He is so cold to the touch, and for being such an > avid kisser, he was not even interested in giving me a kiss. I turned up Dear Shelley. I hope your four ferrrets are all well. It sounds like Dr. Karen's article (see post this list) might have some helpful info for your bi-adrenalectomy fuzzy! > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:35:03 -0600 > From: Troy Lynn Eckart > Subject: Mutley > Magoo's cage and laid in the litter box. I noticed him and watched. > He got up and tried to urinate. No stream, puddle or drip. He went > back and layed in the litter box. Got up and tried again. And > again. Nothing. > > I picked him up and felt a rock hard bladder and a small lump at the > base of his groin. He made little whimpering noises. I showed Donn > where the lump was and sent him downstairs to show Lynda. When Lynda > came upstairs we watched Mutley strain a bit for a few minutes then > we went to work. Lynda pressed on the bladder working upward. > Nothing. She used a hot pack to relax (cooled so as not to burn) > Mutley in that area. Lynda held Mutley and Tina held his back legs. > I worked on his bladder. Within a short time (I'm sure Mutley > thought it was a LLLOOONNNGGG time) a tiny white crystal appeared. > I continued squeezing and a good amount of green pus was expelled, > which was the lump I had felt. We put Mutley down and he went right > to the paper and pee'd. Within the next few minutes he pee'd several > times. The blockage was gone. > > I recommend that everyone have their vet show them how to express a > full bladder and how to work on getting a crystal out, just in case > the need arises. If you don't feel comfortable with this process > I can understand but it is a good piece of info to store in the > memory banks just in case..... > > Hugs. tle What a story, Troy Lynn. We lost Percy due to a blockage. He couldn't be catheterized. I wonder if anyone tried expressing his bladder first? It turned out he had huge crystals inside so expressing may well not have worked. But still, I wonder... I'm so glad Mutley is unblocked! I would suggest an estradial test and Lupron therapy, if the estradial is elevated. Fuzzy hugs, Lynn Mc. 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:50:03 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: FML-Post Subject: U Tenn Adrenal Panel; Adrenal Disease > > From: Alicia K Drakiotes > > Subject: U Tenn adrenal test > > > > My understanding of the U Tenn panel test for adrenal disease is this. The > > test is designed to evaluate several (2?) hormone levels. Unfortunately it > > may be other hormones that are actually elevated (and not those the test was > > designed for). > > This would cause a negative reading when in fact the ferret is asymptomatic. Hi there Alicia. I understand that six hormones are being tested for in the complete panel now (last I checked that is!). I had my two adrenal (confirmed through surgery now) fuzzies tested for estrogen only (Percy was also tested for testosterone levels, which were normal). U Tenn will do selected tests, and it cuts down on fees. One of my vets (who had an adamently adored adrenal fuzzy herself and has done lots of research) says that the most commonly elevated hormone is estrogen, and this is also the hormone responsible for hair loss. Both of my adrenal fuzzies had extensive fur loss and both had elevated estrogen levels. I agree (and have read many places) that the Tenn U panel is inconclusive, but wanted to go a little more into detail about when and how it might help. Percy's (old) vet didn't recommend the U. Tenn panel, saying that normal hormone levels for ferrets haven't been established. Nor did he conclude, through surgery, that Percy had adrenal abnormalities. Nor did he treat with Lysodren, saying it was too toxic. Knowing what I know now about adrenal fuzzies, I, myself, would have diagnosed Percy as adrenal, based on symptomology (hair loss, itching, frequent urination and UT infections) and histology (hyperplastic adrenal tissue was present but the vet said that any four-year-old ferret might exhibit hyperplastic adrenal tissue but have normal hormone output :(!!!!) ) Percy was scheduled to go to his new vet (very experienced with ferrets), but a week before the appointment his urinary tract backed up and he became completely blocked. He died from complications due to an enlarged prostate caused, ultimately, by his adrenal growth or tumor (surgery was tried to clear the blockage but he didn't wake up). We had already sent a blood sample to the U. Tenn and I canceled the test, but Betsy Bailey, a really great lady who runs the Endocrinology Lab there, ran tests for estradial and testosterone at no cost. Percy's estradial was quite elevated. In Percy's case where symptoms were present, after inconclusive exploratory surgery the Tennessee adrenal panel, or simply the estradial test, would have confirmed he was adrenal, as I think it would in other adrenal fuzzies who have had (sometimes multiple) inconclusive exploratory surgeries (i.e. where the adrenals look normal). Three of us that I know of, in Seattle, are also using the estradial test as a base upon which to evaluate therapy. All three fuzzies have hair loss, and all three have high estradial test readings. Two of us are giving our fuzzies Lysodren (which kills adrenal tissue) and one is giving Lupron (which either interrupts the pituatary/hypothalamus feedback loop or blocks estradial receptors, theoretically). The two who started earlier have fuzzies with nearly full hair regrowth (my Wally looks grand and is a real bopper, too!), and the third is getting good hair regrowth. All three had elevated estradial tests and all three will be retested to see that those levels are down. [Our two fuzzies on Lysodren, which is a chemotherapy drug) are also getting prednisone as needed, and Wally gets carafate for an upset stomach. Both have had an episode of toxic reaction to the Lysodren, but both have come through and are doing fine. It's not an easy ride, but both are inoperable adrenal fuzzies. One has no adrenals, and the other, Wally, has a HUGE adrenal tumor, right side, encapsulated in the vena cava).] I have learned that adrenal fuzzies can grow a full coat of hair back and still have a developing adrenal growth (my Wally lost hair in August, grew it back fully for nine months, lost it again... and in exploratory surgery a HUGE adrenal tumor, right-sided, fully encapsulated in the vena cava and deemed inoperable at the time). SO, IMPORTANTLY, estradial and/or other hormone tests might help determine if ferrets who have experienced some extensive hair loss (and/or other adrenal symptoms) and are regrowing hair -- including those with apparently spontaneous recovery and those who are on new and/or alternative therapies -- still have progressing adrenal disease. High hormone levels can cause other problems besides hair loss, and adrenal tumors can spread to other organs (though non-malignant adrenal-encapulated tumors are more common). Based on my and other's personal experience, I will always get any of my fuzzies exhibiting adrenal symptoms a baseline estradial test, at the very least, from which to evaluate treatment. Anyway, that's my .02 on the U Tenn Adrenal panel. So, thanks for writing Alicia, and prompting me to write! For Clare Sebok and Nancy Homquist, who recently asked about adrenal disease, feel free to e-mail me and I'll add you to our support and informational group, the Adrenal Mailing List. We are also discussing insulinoma disease as well now, since it so often goes hand in hand with adrenal problems. Sorry it was so long, but for those still reading, Thanks for listening!! Lynn Mc. and the Gang of Seven Fuzzies - even adrenal Wally!!!! (and, as always, Squeekers and neural-tube siblings, Schroedee Boat, and Percy, in leaping spirit.... 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:14:19 -0500 From: Sukie Crandall Subject: WOW! Lynn, Wow, what a GREAT adrenal write-up!!!!!!!! I learned several things from it, and always enjoy that opportunity. Today, I learned one other thing -- this one from Barb Gustafson about ancient ferrets. She had one which had to lose both adrenals completely at separate times and the ferret was on Florinef LONG TERM and did beautifully on it (dying eventually at age 11 of other causes). Glad to hear it can work well for an extended period! Sukie 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:27:15 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Sukie Crandall Subject: Reply: WOW! Hi there Sukie! It's always nice to hear from you. I've learned a lot by running our Adrenal Group List over the past months. Dr. Karen Purcell just sent a post about a paper on ferret adrenal disease she's writing, wherein she talks about bi-lateral adrenal fuzzies getting prednisone for a couple weeks or so and then being weaned off! The fuzzies get pred. in times of stress. I look forward to reading the article. It will also be very interesting to see how our fuzzy in Seattle responds to just Lupron, no Lysodren. His estradial level was extremely high. Already he is urinating much less! So the Lupron is working to shrink the prostate. He's also growing hair. I can't wait to see if his estradial level is lowering. Dr. Delaney, DVM, says that Lupron blocks estradial receptors, which would lead me to believe it won't get at the source of, and cure, adrenal disease. However, there is also belief that it interrups the pituatary/hypotalamic feedback loop - in which case it could be curative! Then there are our two fuzzies, Pam's Oreo and my Wally, who seem to be doing very well on Lysodren. Wally has a complete, normal coat now! (I understand that many adrenal fuzzies, post-surgery or on Lysodren, sometimes or often get unusual hair regrowth - thin or thick, odd-colored, patchy). We'll be tracking their estradial levels as well. Pretty exciting stuff. I hope you don't mind if I post your message and my response to the Adrenal List! Thanks again for writing Sukie, Lynn Mc. 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:34:59 -0800 (PST) To: ferret-list@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: Adrenal Surgery > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:35:21 -0500 > From: Dave Sweet > Subject: Adrenal surgery > > Hi all ! > > Been lurking a while..but have a question that I know has been on here > before... > > The animal hospital I work at..is having a ferret coming in next week for > adrenal surgery... and I mentioned that I read here that most often it is > usually one side more that the other..that needs extraction... My boss {Vet} > knew of this too but couldn't remeber which side gives a ferret more > problems. He asked me to write here and find out..{btw, we don't do too > many of these surgeries, as most in our area go to Cornell..unless they > aren't rich!} So if you know please, let me know..is it the left or the > right that is most often removed..I know both can be..but we aren't sure > till he opens up the ferret and takes a peek inside..:} > > thanks > > Melanie 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: ferret-list@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: FERRET-L Digest - 27 Oct 1997 to 28 Oct 1997 (#1997-2107) > Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:41:02 -0500 > From: Kathy Lucy > Subject: Artificial Light & Adrenal Tumors > > TO: The Artificial Light Group > > Your use of artificial lights to stimulate hair growth is interesting; > however, using artificial lights is not a new concept. During the 1930's > several studies were done using artificial light to induce estrus cycles > (heat). During the 1950's the neuropathways of light-induced estrus were > studied. During the 1960's, 70's, and 80's the hormones and neuropathways > involved in reproductive neuroendocrinology in ferrets were studied. I will > try to briefly explain this sixty plus years of medical research. The > amount of light per day (photoperiods) regulates the amount of melatonin. > During the spring/summer months the photoperiod increases (13-15 hours of > light per day) and the melatonin levels decrease. During the fall/winter > months the photoperiod decreases (8-12 hours of light per day) and the > melatonin levels increase. Melatonin directly and indirectly controls the > hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal/gonadal axis. Thus the increased melatonin > levels (8-12 hours of light) cause the seasonal weight increase ends the > estrus cycles, and stimulates the hair follicles to grow hair (ie. putting > on their winter coat). Conversely the decreased melatonin levels (13-15 > hours of light) cause the seasonal weight loss, starts the estrus cycles, > and causes the hair follicles to shed. > > Based on your results, I suspect you are using a short photoperiod (8-11 > hours) to increase the melatonin levels which is causing the hair growth and > weight gains. However you are not actually curing these ferrets. When you > increase the photoperiod (13-15 hours) estrus signs and hair loss will > re-occur and become progressively worse. This same phenomenon occurs in > ferrets with early mild adrenal disease. The use of artificial lights > (short photoperiod) or melatonin supplements to stimulate hair growth would > be best used 1) after adrenal surgery 2) when surgery is too risky (ie. > heart disease, lymphoma, etc.) 3) when the owner can not afford surgery , or > 4) when the left adrenal gland has been removed and the right adrenal gland > has been debulked by capsular incision. > > One last thing, the new canine drug Anipryl will not help adrenal disease in > ferrets. > > Thank you > Jerry Murray, DVM > Animal Clinic of Farmers Branch > Farmers Branch, Tx. ---------------------End of Adrenal List #55-----------------