From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #36 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #36 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:45:23 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Adrenal Group -- Amy Cada , AndresenK@aol.com, Anthony.Mastropolo@sandoz.com, beek@feist.com, Beth , "Brian L. Schmidt" , Cat13Dog5@aol.com, dadams@dzn.com, Dave and Pam Taynor , Dixie Carter , Ela_Heyn@notes.pw.com, Ellen Jensen , ferreton@pond.com, ferretwise@top.monad.net, ferts@telusplanet.net, gabby , Gary Holowicki , Helen Andersson , Jan3GDFA@aol.com, Jason & Alison Overstreet , Jennifer Skeem , Jennifer_Morlanne@email.fpl.com, Jim Dunn , Joanne Gelormino , Joerg Drobniewski , Juliana Quadrozzi - GA Domestic Ferret Association , "Karen Purcell, DVM" , karen wisniewski , lbarber , Lee McKee , Lisaferets@aol.com, Lorraine Tremblay , lotaweasel , Margaret Lehman , "Mary L. McCarty" , "Michael F. Janke" , Monica Maples , Pam Franklin , Pam Franklin , Patricia Curtis , Rick Riley , ROCHELLE@art.fss.buffalo.edu, Sburbine@aol.com, sterling , TMccabe453@aol.com, Tobibags@aol.com, TrinaSing@aol.com, Troy Lynn Eckart , "Valori K. Blank" , Vicky James Subject: Adrenal List #36 Hi there. Thanks to those who sent good wishes for our recent marriage. While Janos is in Hungary with his sick mom, our living room is full of flower bouquets and, better, the house is full of my seven fuzzies (and one cat) - hey; someone has to stay home and take care of the kids! Wally is doing great. We all went out for a romp in the side yard tonight, and Tarzan got to experience the mysterious sprinkler (with me at the hose helm like the Wizard of Oz)... Thank you for messages about Wally. Does anyone else have info about vets doing vena cava ligations. Or success stories (not posted yet) about this procedure? This adrenal tissue seems to be like the Energizer Bunny! Of course, we may opt for Lysodren. Has anyone very encountered an adrenal tumor the size of a golf- to racket- ball, and one that couldn't be debulked?! Rochelle. It sounds like Shadow's adrenal problems may be recurring (apart from the ulcers). Since Shadow has insulinoma, treating adrenal disease with Lysodren may be a bit more tricky, but I know a ferret who was on Lysodren and pred for three years for adrenal and insulinoma, and was pretty perky and furry. I strongly suggest an estradial test (U. Tennessee) or panel, to see where Shadow is at with the adrenal problem. How is Boomer doing (Tuesday surgery) Troy Lynn? Hugs and good luck to Sabie, too. Dave: I'm glad Bobo is doing well. Hair loss can take awhile to regrow, following adrenal surgery, but I'm sure Dr. McCabe has good reason to do skin tests. Has Bobo grown any new hair at all? Pam... Hang in there with Oreo, Big Foot, and Chubba Wubba... but you don't need me to say that. You're incredibly calm and stalwart already! Fuzzy hugs, Lynn Mc. Adrenal List #36, dated August 12, 1997 1. Reply to adrenal list 35: Regrowing good bacteria 2. Reply: Shadow 3. Bobo update 4. Adrenal LIst #35: Surgery Sabie & Boomer; Reply re: Science Diet A/D 5. Natural Adrenal Remedy 6. Wally - Vena Cava Ligation - Vet Consults? 7. Big Foot, Ore, Chubba Whubba; Continued Adrenal Symptoms/Symptoms in Remisison; Deprovera versus HCG 8. Reply: Shadow 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Lorraine Tremblay Cc: dervish@scrye.com Subject: Reply to adrenal list 35: Regrowing good bacteria Dixie Carter wrote in list #35: >Nick is going to the vet today and I spent the weekend getting the >ingredients for the E-Coli overgroth recipe TLE posted. He's on >antibiotics so how can we repopulate the prostrate with 'good' bacteria if we >are on antibiotics? I read once that linseed or yogurt (with an active culture - I do not recall the name) are good to regrow the intestine good bacteria. I assume the linseed would not hurt & it is worth a try to see if it helps the bacteria flora of the prostate. At least the ferret would think it is a treat! Linseed il is sold in health food stores. I would not get the kind used to treat wood because I do not know if it is has harmful additives or not & it would not be fresh. Lorraine Tremblay & Pepe La Pew, Sanka, Mukluk, Presto, Snoreau & Boum Boum Owner of the Ferret Curiosity Shop Webmistress of Mustela Canada http://www.ferretcuriosity.on.ca 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: ferretwise@top.monad.net Subject: Reply: Shadow Dear Rochelle, It seems your Shadow has been fighting an uphill battle for some time. The lotion you ae applying to the skin-- make sure there is NO alcohol-- that will only dry it out more... glycerine is good, or try some aloe vera gel-- check to see that no alcohol is listed on the ingredients. Are you supplementing with vitamin E? Either topical or taken internally will help with the skin. Also if the spleen is enlarged as you say-- or if the mid section seems to have grown in size I would not feel uncomfotable stating that the chances are also good that some lymphosarcoma is hiding in there. We have seen this with several bi-lateral adrenals here. Of course if the pred is already being administered, there is little more that will help here. Sending best wishes to you and Shadow Fondly in ferrets, Aliica a shelter MOm 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:08:29 -0600 From: dave adams To: Lynn McIntosh Subject: Re: Bobo update First thing is to congratulate you on your marriage. Not knowing much about you or your private affairs did not realize wedding bells were sounding. Hope you both are avid ferret people and have many days of ferret fun. Bobo went to the vet and a hair sample was taken for a fungi culture. Exam did not yield anything in the way of ringworm etc. He is still doing ok and meaner than ever to a couple of his buds. A note to Boots about Tippie-- if the mosquitoes are that bad be sure and have Tippie check for heart worms and start treatment if u are not already doing so. Those pests are the carrier of the heart worm. All the other six adrenal kids seem to be doing ok with the exception of Sylvester. Had his shots and seemed to have a reaction(not to serum)as one has to flu shots. Several hrs after the shots he seemed very listless. He seems to have recovered a little of his strength but he still does not seem to be his old self. He is eating and all but just not right if u know what i mean. Will be watching him with an extra eye. So long for now best wishes on the marriage. I wonder how the European honeymoon is going to work out. Let us know. Dave Adams +17fbs for now(one still classified as visitor) 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 08:23:19 -0600 From: Troy Lynn Eckart Subject: Adrenal LIst #35: Surgery Sabie & Boomer; Reply re: Science Diet A/D Congratulations Lynn and Janos! I've decided on surgery for Sabie. She's 7 yrs old. Surgery is Friday. Boomer (5-6 yrs) is having adrenal surgery today (well Tuesday). He couldn't urinate on Saturday and Dr. Pye flushed several crystals out. Please keep them both in your thoughts and prayers for successful surgeries and quick recoveries. Dixie -Science Diet A/D is a prescription canned food that you can purchase from your vet. The reasoning is that if we put enough good bacteria back in, it will keep the bad bacteria in check. Whenever using antibiotics it is a good idea to add acidophilus to the diet to try and avoid the bad bacteria overgrowth. If your ferret likes yogurt you can add that to a special recipe too. Hugs to all. tle 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:51:56 -0400 From: Rick Riley Subject: Natural Adrenal Remedy Hi guys, I saw a couple of requests for me to post the recipe for the natural adrenal remedy I've been using so I wrote in to do that. I know sometimes it gets jumbled in transport so if it's too confusing to read, just send me a line and I'll snail mail you a hard copy. I also wanted to mention that I've had success relieving the "naked adrenal itch and sores" with simple vitamin E oil. It's probably available at your local health food store. I rub it on their nakedness once or twice a day, (depending on the severity) and you can see the relief come over their faces. The itching lessens immediatly and the sores heal up within a few days. I can't say for sure, but I think it helps stimulate the hair to grow too.(If only temporarily). Anyway, here's the recipe. Good luck with it. I will be out of town as of Wed. for a week and a half so unfortunately won't be able to answer any questions 'til I get back.(Unless someone can tell me how to access my e-mail from somewhere else.) Kisses to your fuzzies, Carin Riley RILEY REMEDY NATURAL ADRENAL TREATMENT INGREDIENTS: TWINLAB Stress B-Complex Caps All B vitamins are necessary for adrenal function. NATURAL SOURCES All Adrenal Protein derived from this adrenal Raw adrenal glandular concentrate gland substance helps to rebuild (freeze dried bovine) and repair the adrenal glands. 165mg SOLARAY Grapenol 100% Grape Seed Extract Most potent source of anti-oxidants. 30mg TWINLAB L-Tyrosine free form amino acid Aids adrenal gland function and 500mg relieves excess stress put on the glands. EAGLE HEATH TECHNOLOGIES 100% pure shark cartilage Proven to be successful in tumor reduction. 740mg TWINLAB C-Plus Citrus Bioflavanoid caps (with Rutin) Vital for proper functioning of the adrenals. TWINLAB Pantothenic Acid (B-5) caps The adrenal glands do not function adequately 100mg without pantothenic acid. NATURE'S ANSWER Alchohol Free Echinacea Boosts the immune system 1oz. (As with any herb, use 6 days and skip the 7th for more effectiveness) MORINDA Tahitian Noni Juice Immune system booster, tumor reduction, enhances other supplements, all-around amazing product. I always make two batches of the dry vitamin mixture at the same time. It's a little easier to measure that way and I can save the second batch in a ziplock baggy and use it the next day. When using the capsules, I break them open and split 1/3 of the capsule between two batches. So there is 1/6 of a capsule in every batch. (Unless otherwise specified in the recipe) When using tablets, I cut the pill in fours with a pill cutter and use 1/4 of a tablet per batch. BASIC SOFT FOOD RECIPE (Recipe can be doubled. Just keep refrigerated in air tight container.) 1 can SCIENCE DIET A/D 1 jar GERBER 2nd Stage (Blue Label) Chicken Baby food 1/4 tsp. PET'S FRIEND, INC. Ferretzyme Plus 1/8 cup water The following are the steps I recommend in treating an adrenal ferret. You may skip some steps and/or ingredients and may or may not get the same results. Hopefully you will report any results back to me so we can know what is necessary and what isn't. The first three weeks of treatment, I feed the following morning and night. Shark Cartilage 1/6 capsule Grape Seed Extract 1/4 capsule Echinacea 5 drops Noni juice 6 drops I mix this with two heaping teaspoonfuls of the basic soft food that has first been warmed slightly in the microwave. After three weeks, I start adding the following ingredients to the above mixture and started feeding only once a day. All of the above, plus: B-Complex Caps 1/6 capsule Raw adrenal concentrate 1/4 tablet L-Tyrosine 1/6 capsule C-Plus Bioflavanoid 1/6 capsule Pantothenic Acid 1/2 capsule I mix this in same as above. I researched this remedy out of desperation for a ferret who had already had one adrenal removed and started showing symptoms again before the hair on her shaved belly had grown back. I did the three week pre-treatment to get her system used to the extra vitamins and to boost her immune system. Two weeks after adding the second batch of ingredients I started to see a change in the size of her vulva. After three weeks I was sure of what I was seeing. After four and five weeks, I started to see little hairs poking through her bare skin. After eight weeks, she was fuzzy and at 12 weeks, she had a thick soft beautiful coat and a normal size vulva. I stopped the treatment for one week while I was treating all my ferrets for a case of ECE and thought I noticed the vulva trying to sneak out again. If the treatment works for you, you probably shouldn't stop it. I also found that during the spring which is the normal active breeding season, they may start showing slight symptoms. Do not be alarmed. The treatment will keep your ferret's adrenal functioning normally during this stressful time of year. If you have any questions about the treatment or where to obtain the ingredients, please call Carin Riley at (954) 346-9585. 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:44:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Adrenal Group Subject: Wally - Vena Cava Ligation - Vet Consults? Hi there. I'm writing directly because I need this info as soon as possible. We'll have a nice list this evening or so. I'll reprint this then, too. Wally's giant tumor (very involved with the vena cava; golf-ball to racketball-sized and tubular) has tested adrenal (not conclusively, but pretty sure). Alicia D. and Pam T., you both have mentioned vets who have done vena cava ligations. We may need to do this with our Wally. I have a good vet who will consult. Could you send the phone numbers (and city, state) of your vets, Dr. Allen Edwards (Alicia), and Dr. Hudson (Pam)? If others have vets with expertise in this area, please send the same information, and a short note on the vet's success with this procedure. Alicia, I should have looked into this when you suggested it!! Also, have any of the ferrets who have had this procedure done shown further signs of adrenal disease? I and a friend are deciding on Lysodren versus surgery. Wally has a much bigger tumor (than friend's ferret), very involved with the vena cava (my vet didn't even want to risk a biopsy as the tumor oozed each time she touched it, but she got a needle biopsy!). We decided on the the safe route at the time (the tumor was so big and distorted the organs so much, she wasn't sure it was adrenal and what the vein provided blood to), so we could look further into options. Thank you very much for any and all help! Lynn and, of course, Wally 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:40:06 -0700 From: pfranklin@panlabs.com Subject: Big Foot, Ore, Chubba Whubba; Continued Adrenal Symptoms/Symptoms in Remisison; Deprovera versus HCG Hi all! I have been meaning to send in an update but my babies have been keeping me busy. Big Foot is doing extremely well following his surgery (removal of spleen, insulinoma tumor and adrenal tumor). He is starting to grow fuzzies in where he lost fur and I heard him cluck for the first time in years!. Oreo had a trip to the emergency vet when she developed side effects to the lysodren. It was pretty scary but she recovered after a day or two. She has since been tolerating it well and there is some shrinking in her vulva size which I hope will show that it's working (in a few weeks I will have her levels tested again). I would like to take a minute to address this. I have seen a couple of post lately here and on the FML about adrenal female ferrets and the reduction of the vulva size without any treatment or surgery. Just because the vulva suddenly shrinks and fur grows back in DOES NOT MEAN that the estradiol level has gone down. This happened to Oreo and both me and my vet were very excited about what this might mean. Just to be sure we had another Tenn. panel done and her estradiol levels were HIGHER than they ever were (even higher that before her first surgery)! I can not stress enough how important getting that test done is. The damage that is done by a long, high level of estrogen is not reversable. Sooner or later the heat signs will come back. The test is also important in that surgery should not be done without having the test results first. In cases where there is no abnormal adrenal tissue found it could be ovarian remnant left from the spay that is causing the adrenal signs. The Tenn. test results tell the vet what to look for, if just the estradiol level is elevated then it's ovarian, if other levels are up then it's adrenal. I got this info from Dr. Bruce Williams when I was questioning what to do with Oreo. I would also like to make one other suggestion. If you are considering hormone shots to regulate heat cycles please do not use depro vera. It has serious side effects and it will cause a false pregnancy in your female ferret. The first time Oreo went into "heat" the vet I went to at that time (and have never been back to!) gave her the shot. She was bonkers for almost a year! First she gained a tremendous amount of weight and even developed milk sacks. Then she got bone skinny and was a nervous wreck. Just as she was returning back to normal guess what?! The heat signs came back. HCG is a better alternative. It targets ovarian tissue and tells the body that it is done ovulating and the ferret comes out of heat. Ask your vet about it for more info, it is used on a variety of animals including horses! Just when I thought all my ferrets were finally doing well health wise my Chubba Wubba got sick. At this point it is a mystery to both my vet and myself. Unfortunately it looks like it may be lymphoscarcoma. I won't go into detail since this isn't the subject of this list but if you all could just keep him in your prayers or thoughts I would really appreciate it. Pam Franklin 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:13:46 -0600 From: Barbara Gustafson Subject: Reply: Shadow Rochelle, I'm not sure about the sneezing but the itching that Shadow is experiencing is another symptom of the adrenal. Tippie has the same problem. She has very little hair and always seems to have a sore somewhere on her little body. We got some cream from the vet to put on the sores, but otherwise there's not a whole lot you can do. It sounds like Shadow needs surgery so hopefully once that is done the symptoms will disappear. Barb Gustafson (aka Boots) > From: ROCHELLE@art.fss.buffalo.edu > Subject: Shadow- semi-urgent... > > I'm looking for any suggestions for my eldest, Shadow. > > Shadow had her left adrenal removed a year and a half ago, after which her > hair regrew, she had more energy, etc. > But the itching is making her > miserable enough that we're beginning to think that its time to say goodbye. > > Rochelle > (rochelle@art.fss.buffalo.edu) > > --------------------End of Adrenal List #36-----------------------